There once was a television programme called The White Heather Club. It involved singers like Andy Stewart winking at the camera as he sang Donald Where's Your Troosers? Everybody wore "national costume" - dressed as shortbread tins as Billy Connolly put it - and flings were flung in a very stagey way. For years it seemed to define Scotland and Scottish music, and made it very difficult indeed for those attempting to somehow get in touch with the real thing.
Phil Cunningham was a young musician growing up in Edinburgh. He was an accomplished accordionist and fiddler - equally talented as both a classical and traditional player - and one of those who, against the odds, decided to pursue Scottish music and drag it unashamedly into the open. And it's largely thanks to people like Cunningham, and his musical partner Aly Bain, that the blood-curdling sight of Andy Stewart's knees has somehow receded into the mist.
"I think," says Cunningham, "that Scotland, within the last 20 years, has started to find its traditional music again. I think it had largely been displaced by a media image of what traditional music was - The White Heather Club is what people were seeing. And of course I was bombarded with Jimmy Shand records. I've always thought Jimmy Shand had a place, although I've never ever played like that. I think the older I get, the more I appreciate what he did because he formed a way that took Scottish music somewhere - albeit in its own direction. But he made it a new thing and it was the first traditional revolution if you like."
Scotland had not enjoyed the traditional and folk revival which had taken place in Ireland. The Incredible String Band had been a sort of psychedelic folk group and outfits like The Corries certainly did their bit, but there had been nothing on the scale of The Clancys, The Dubliners or The Chieftains. It was really when The Boys of The Lough arrived on the scene that Scottish music got up and running. In a line-up which also featured Fermanagh's Cathal Mc Connell, Shetlander Aly Bain began to seriously introduce the old music to new ears. This was a hugely important development because, up until then, perhaps the greatest difficulty for younger enthusiasts like Phil Cunningham was to actually get next to the music itself. In short, traditional music hadn't been easy to come by.
"In the Highlands, yes, and in areas of Glasgow where there were a lot of Highland people. And of course there was a strong singing tradition and they had their clubs, but in terms of instrumental music I think it was mainly done in the north - in places like Aberdeenshire and over in the Highlands where there was piping and a lot of box playing. So there were strongholds of traditional music but Edinburgh certainly wasn't one of them. I was treated as a complete outsider at school. Traditional music just wasn't a big thing. Only a handful of us went to folk music of any description."
At 16, Phil left school to join his brother's band Silly Wizard. Prompted by groups like The Battlefield Band and Alba, Silly Wizard (fronted by Andy M. Stewart with the emphasis on the M) was one of a bunch of groups who had clearly had quite enough of what The White Heather Club was saying about Scotland. They were mostly Scottish variations on the Celtic rock theme and together they helped to develop an international touring circuit for Scottish bands, paving the way for the successes of Capercaille and Runrig. But what was most striking in the approach of these 1970s groups was that they were playing the music with pride and considerable style. Gone was the discomfort, gone was The White Heather Club and gone were the polished sporrans. And according to Phil Cunningham, it was the huge influence of Irish musicians which had made all the difference - even on the way he played the box.
"Jimmy Shand, to be fair, had always been a real influence on me, but people like Joe Burke also. I went to see him playing in Murray House when I was a 14-year-old. I'd just had five teeth broken in a rugby match and I went along to see Joe Burke and it blew me away. But Planxty was the biggest influence. I would have to be honest. It was Planxty for definite. I was halfway through my classical upbringing at the time and Planxty approached things in that very arranged and thoughtful way. And the work I've done with Triona and Micheal O Domhnaill in Relativity turned my thinking around a good 180 degrees! Even the way I play the accordion is based on the way Ciaran Hanrahan or Gerry O'Connor plays the tenor banjo, or Finbar Furey plays the pipes. I would say that Irish musicians have been very influential in Scotland. When I started going to sessions the music would be split 70/30 - in Ireland's favour."
These days, Scottish musicians are enjoying the fruits of the "Celtic thing" almost as much as their Irish cousins. But Cunningham is also aware that, in terms of marketing, Scottish music still has quite a distance to catch up. Since folk first went international in the 1960s, he has recognised that it has always been Ireland, and not Scotland, which tends to get the attention. And to this day, whatever glamour there is in traditional music, Ireland still seems to have the market firmly cornered.
"Aye, but Scotland is getting better at making an identity. You see we don't have Scottish music per se. We don't have one thing. We have loads of different music that comes from Scotland. We have northeast fiddling, Gaelic song, Scots song, Borders fiddling, west coast, east coast - all these different factions which aren't really united and you need to have it united to sell it. I think it's happening now. I think you guys (the Irish) are great at it. You have a great governmental structure which supports your music. We haven't had a structure in place for long and it's not very strong yet. The people bringing the youth on are dedicated individuals, but they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart. I would say about 10 or 15 years down the line, we'll really be in a position to start selling what we have. We have to teach the kids how to be good at it and how to be proud of it. Don't forget that your average Irish musician is very, very talented. They have role models and they have access to them and that's very important."
Currently on tour with the very legendary Aly Bain, Cunningham is one of Scotland's busiest musicians. He runs a jazz-funk group, he produces record after record and has become almost the resident musical director for any film, television or theatrical event set in his home place. His tour with Bain has been an annual event since 1989 and they promise a no-frills, sit-down-and-play-the-music kind of show - Scottish, Irish, Cajun and a few compositions of their own. For Cunningham and Bain, so highly regarded in Ireland, it promises to be a sort of homecoming. And it's not to be missed.
"I'm a great believer that we are basically one and the same people. There is something that you have and we have that England doesn't. There is a definite Celtic thing that controls us all. It's to do with attitude and that's something which certainly comes across in one's music."
Phil Cunningham and Aly Bain play HQ Hall of Fame, Monday 23rd October