Mr PADRAIG Collery, the banker and computer expert who, along with the late Mr Des Traynor, operated the secretive Ansbacher deposits, gave some more insights into their operation during evidence yesterday.
It was already known that around 1989, when the deposits were worth approximately £38 million, they were moved from Guinness & Mahon (G&M) bank to Irish Intercontinental Bank (IIB). So that G&M would not be hit with a sudden, £38 million withdrawal, the transfer of the funds took place over a period of two to three years.
The deposits were technically offshore. Depositors would contact Mr Traynor or Mr Collery when they wanted to make deposits or withdrawals. When the deposits were with G&M, depositors who wanted to make cash withdrawals could collect the money at the bank's offices in Dame Street, Dublin.
Because IIB had no cash withdrawal facility, Mr Traynor opened accounts in a number of banks, including one with Bank of Ireland, St Stephen's Green, Dublin, in the name of Kentford Securities.
Mr Collery explained that when depositors wanted cash, money would be transferred from the Ansbacher account with IIB to the Kentford account. The money could then be collected from the Bank of Ireland.
One of the payments being investigated by the tribunal is that of £180,000 in cheques made out to cash and signed by Mr Ben Dunne. The cheques were lodged to the account of Carlisle Trust, Bank of Ireland, Rotunda, Dublin, by a secretarial service instructed to do so by Mr Traynor. Mr Traynor was a director of Carlisle for about 30 years.
The money was withdrawn from the Carlisle account in two cheques, one for £100,000 made out to Celtic Helicopters and another for £80,000 made out to cash.
The £80,000 cheque was dated November 30th, 1992 and given to Mr Traynor. A lodgement for that amount was made to the Kentford account on December 1st. The lodgement brought the balance to £82,625.
Over the following two weeks a number of withdrawals were made, and by December 17th the balance was down to £791. Meanwhile an £80,000 lodgement had been made to Mr Haughey's account in the Ansbacher deposits. The lodgement was made on December 10th and the sterling equivalent was £84,800. A lodgement for £108,017 sterling had been made 10 days earlier. The account was coded S8 and was a sterling account.
Mr Collery explained that, based on his experience of operating the accounts, he believed what had happened was that the series of withdrawals from the Kentford account were made on behalf of persons who had sterling accounts in the Ansbacher deposits. The equivalent of £80,000 was then taken from their accounts, and lodged by Mr Traynor in Mr Haughey's S8 account.
Mr Haughey's counsel, Mr Eoin McGonigal SC, said this was only an assumption, but Mr Collery said his belief as to what had transpired was reasonable.
More evidence in relation to the £180,000 transaction was given by Mr John Byrne, the principal figure behind Carlisle. Carlisle is a very successful property development operation which owns a number of office blocks in Dublin, including O'Connell Bridge House.
Mr Byrne said he first learned of the £180,000 passing through his company's bank account in 1994. At the time Dunnes was trying to find out where the money had gone, and had traced it as far as the Rotunda branch of the Bank of Ireland.
The bank contacted Mr Byrne to see if he would allow it disclose who owned the account. Mr Byrne did not give this permission.
He said he made sure his company was not "out of pocket" as a result of the affair, and after that had not much interest in it. He said he was "dismayed" to discover that his trusted associate, Mr Traynor, had done such a thing.
However, by the time he was told of the transaction Mr Traynor was dead. For that reason, he could not discover the purpose behind the transactions. Mr Traynor died in May 1994.
After Mr Byrne left the stand, other testimony suggested that the inquiries by Dunnes which prompted the bank to contact Mr Byrne occurred around January 1994. Mr Byrne is likely to be recalled to be questioned about this.
He is also likely to be questioned about an investment he revealed he made in Celtic Helicopters in November 1992. The fact of the investment was disclosed yesterday but not its size.
Mr Byrne said it had come about following discussions he had had with Mr John Barnacle, one of the directors of Celtic Helicopters, of which Mr Haughey's son Ciaran is a major shareholder.