Positioning of garda was naive, says ex-negotiator

A former FBI negotiator has told the tribunal that he "didn't know whether to laugh or cry" at the "charmingly naive" decision the gardaí made to put the negotiation point at the Abbeylara siege in the line of fire of Mr John Carthy.

The Garda negotiator, Det Sgt Michael Jackson, was positioned just outside the boundary wall of Mr Carthy's house, directly in his line of fire.

Several times during the siege Mr Carthy fired shots in the direction of the negotiator, one of which knocked a loudhailer from the wall, and another toppled a breeze block on to Det Sgt Jackson.

Mr Frederick J. Lanceley, who was the FBI negotiator at the Waco and Ruby Ridge sieges, said gardaí may have made the situation worse by putting the negotiator in such a provocative position.

"When I read about this I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, it was such a charmingly naive thing to do."

Det Sgt Jackson's life was put at an unacceptable risk, without much benefit to, and possibly to the detriment of, the situation, he said.

Counsel for the gardaí, Mr John Rogers, suggested there was a difference in "approach, culture and attitude" between US and Irish policing. "Maybe after a few more gardaí die in shoot-outs your culture might change," Mr Lanceley replied.

The Irish law enforcement system expects too much from its officers, he said. "They didn't pay me enough to die on this job and I suspect they didn't pay Mr Jackson enough to die on the job."

Using a loudhailer to negotiate was probably counter-productive, Mr Lanceley said.

"Could Mr Jackson have changed Mr Carthy's intent? I suspect not, but he could have had a better chance."

Mr Carthy had "set up" the siege with the intention of dying at the hands of the gardaí, he said. "In retrospect I don't think anybody could have stopped Mr Carthy doing what he was doing."