Dáil row over Public Services Card as Minister hits out at TD for ‘calling me a liar’

There were heated exchanges in the Dáil in a row over the Public Services Card (PSC) when Minister for Employment Affairs Regina Doherty told her Fianna Fáil counterpart "I won't take your guff of calling me a liar".

The party’s social protection spokesman Willie O’Dea accused the Minister of misleading the House during a debate on the card and the report of the Data Protection Commissioner.

The Commissioner’s report ruled it was unlawful to require the card for any benefits or services beyond those offered by the Department of Social Protection. It also stated it was illegal for the State to keep data on the over three million people who have the card.

The Government has rejected the findings and will appeal the decision once the commission takes enforcement proceedings, expected in the coming weeks.

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Mr O’Dea repeatedly called for the department’s legal advice to be published or an analysis of it. He claimed it was external advice and not that of the Attorney General.

He also claimed Ms Doherty was pretending the department’s response to the report was the same as the legal advice when it was not.

And he hit out at the Minister when she said she was extending a policy initiated by Fianna Fáil in legislation in 1998 and 2005. Mr O’Dea said the legislation Fianna Fáil introduced was the legislation the Commissioner found “doesn’t provide any legal underpinning to extend the PSC to other bodies”.

Ms Doherty said she was happy to defend a policy Mr O’Dea in Cabinet had introduced but “I won’t stand here and have you challenge me and have you telling me I’m telling you lies. I don’t deserve that.”

‘Misleading the House’

He replied that “you’re misleading the House” and told her “you won’t intimidate me”.

Ms Doherty retorted that “what I won’t take is your guff calling me a liar” and “I’m sticking up for myself”.

Defending the operation of the card, the Minister said her only choice was to appeal the judgment. She had twice sought to meet the Data protection commissioner but was refused.

Social Democrats TD Catherine Murphy said while the Minister stated that the PSC was not an identity card, if it was being used for public services and being extended it was becoming a "de facto ID card".

“If we’re going to have a national identity card then let’s debate it,” she said. She had asked 70 parliamentary questions about the issue but felt TDs were being dismissed by the department when they sought answers.

Ms Murphy warned that one of the big issues was that the State was exposed to the potential of hacking attacks particularly because of its insistence on keeping data it no longer needed on the more than three million card holders.

She added that if the Government wanted an identity card they should have a full debate about that.

Independent TD Catherine Connolly said a wise minister would have taken TDs' concerns on board and she hit out at the department's response to the report as "contemptuous".

Sinn Féin social protection spokesman John Brady highlighted comments by Minister for Transport Shane Ross who said his department had been vindicated by opposing the use of the PSC to obtain a driving licence.

Ms Doherty said she could not speak for Mr Ross and was unaware if other departments or agencies got their own legal advice about the card.