Some recruits to Defence Forces ‘just not able for it’ - Kehoe

Minister of State for Defence Paul Kehoe has said pay is "not the biggest issue" for Defence Forces recruits who drop out of training, and suggested some are "just not able for it".

Pay and conditions for members of the Defence Forces has been the subject of heavy criticism recently, with President Michael D Higgins saying it "should not be too much to expect" that members are paid an income sufficient to provide for themselves.

Mr Kehoe, appearing before the Oireachtas defence committee on Thursday, said about 22 per cent of recruits to the Defence Forces – which is suffering a personnel retention crisis – drop out before completing their training.

“That’s not a new phenomenon,” he said. “I don’t believe pay is the biggest issue. I’m sure they look at the pay scales going into the job. Military life is not suitable for them. The training is robust and some people are just not able for it.”

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Mr Kehoe also cast doubt on the veracity of claims that some members of the Defence Forces have had to sleep in their cars.

“I’ve said bring these people to me who have to sleep in their cars because I want to talk to them,” he said. “No one – not once – has ever come to me and said that. I don’t believe everything I read on social media.”

However, Ger Guinan, general secretary of PDForra, which is the organisation representing rank-and-file Defence Forces members, said pay and conditions were a “significant” factor.

“It is undoubtable that military training is robust and that some recruits do depart from the Defence Forces upon discovery of what military life is like,” he said.

“However, the current pay and allowance regime is a significant contributory factor to the premature departure of a significant numbers of new entrants to the Defence Forces.

“Statistics published by the Public Service Pay Commission show that upwards of 45 per cent of new entrants depart within the first five years. This is dysfunctional and illustrates a deep dissatisfaction with current pay and allowance rates.”

‘Sense of collapse’

A number of members of the committee rounded on Mr Kehoe, accusing him of failing to answer questions and running down the clock. Fianna Fáil defence spokesman Jack Chambers said there was a “general sense of collapse” in the ranks under his leadership.

A delegation from the committee recently visited the Curragh to examine conditions there. Committee chairman Brendan Smith said the accommodation was “not fit for purpose”, while senator Gabrielle McFadden said there were no proper showers.

Mr Kehoe said “millions and millions” would be needed to complete all the work that is required, “but we have done significant work and we are catching up”. He said the State has “invested heavily in the last few years, but more is needed”.

“If we only spent money in the Curragh camp, people would be very disappointed,” he added.

Mr Kehoe said he hoped there would be “further scope for pay increases” but that there were no plans to set up a “separate pay determination” for members. The air ambulance service, which was recently scaled back, will be “up and running” by March 1st, he said.

In terms of manpower, he said the Defence Forces were “fully funded” for 9,500 personnel. “I’m not going to put a date on when we will get back up to that number, but everything will be done to achieve that,” he said.

In response, Representative Association of Commissioned Officers general secretary Conor King said that at the current rate of turnover, even with an increase in the rate of recruitment to 700 per annum, the Defence Forces “is never getting back to 9,500”.

Mr King also said the “unique nature of military service” and the civil liberties that personnel forgo must be recognised by a separate model of pay determination.

“Defence Forces personnel will never strike or withdraw labour, but this fact must not be exploited. Bitter experience has shown that we have no place among the large trade unions who can strike for more favourable conditions.”

Mr Kehoe denied that the State was “taking advantage” of members, and said it was “totally untrue” that the Department has been handing back millions of euro to the Department of Public Expenditure.

He said €4.2 million had been returned in the period 2014-2018, which represented 0.09 per cent of its budget over that period.