Fire as described to gardai would have injured arsonist, scientist tells trial

A FORENSIC science consultant told the Central Criminal Court yesterday he would have expected a publican to have been burned…

A FORENSIC science consultant told the Central Criminal Court yesterday he would have expected a publican to have been burned or injured if he had set a fire at his home as described in a statement to gardai.

Dr John Lloyd also agreed that the fire at Mr Frank McCann's home, where his wife and a baby girl died, was probably set deliberately.

He did not know how it could have been otherwise caused because he had insufficient information, the witness said. He agreed some form of accelerant had probably been used.

Dr Lloyd was giving evidence on the 44th day of the trial of Mr McCann (36), who has denied the murder of his wife Esther, (36) and 18 month old baby Jessica at their home at Butterfield Avenue, Rathfarnham, Dublin, on September 4th, 1992.

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The jury has heard that Jessica was a blood relative of the accused but not a child of his marriage to, Esther. The prosecution has claimed that Mr McCann arranged the fire because he did not want to tell his wife why the Adoption Board had refused their application to adopt Jessica.

The jury has also heard that Mr McCann, who owned The Cooperage Pub in Blessington, Co Wicklow, had complained to gardai of threatening phone calls to the pub and his home.

Evidence in the trial concluded yesterday and closing speeches will start before the jury on Monday.

In court yesterday, Dr Lloyd told Mr Barry White SC, defending, that if the fire at Butterfield Avenue had been set in the way Mr McCann described to gardai he would have expected Mr McCann to have been burned or damaged in some way.

He criticised tests carried out by gardai and forensic experts which aimed to reconstruct how the fire may have started.

The tests were not a scientific experiment but a demonstration which had not worked, he said.

The witness agreed the tests were devised to justify a Garda theory concerning the fire and no alternative scenario was investigated. None of the tests had succeeded in replicating the damage done to the McCann home as a result of the fire, he said.

The living room of the house was badly burned and the experiments did not replicate this, he said.

Petrol was one of several possible fire accelerants from a list which included solvents, alcohol and paraffin. He could not say how much fuel was involved in the fire at Butterfield Avenue but it appeared to have been a large volume.

He said petrol was very combustible and burned rapidly and a person could get caught up in it.

Cross examined by Mr Tom O'Connell BL, prosecuting, Dr Lloyd agreed he was not present for experiments carried out in relation to the case, had not visited the scene of the fire and had not visited the Dublin Forensic Science Laboratory.

He also agreed he had not carried out any experiments in relation to the case.

He accepted damage to the front door of the McCann home was consistent with the door being open for a good part of the fire. He contended the door would have shut if a person had stayed at the door and attempted to light the fire.

Pressed on that matter, Dr Lloyd agreed the door shutting would depend on the degree of ventilation and on how much of the door was open.

He agreed it seemed there was some form of low level fire in the hall of the house. He said there was a contribution to the fire from the living room.

He said there was no reason to suppose mains gas was involved in the fire and it was "very probable" to suppose mains gas and electricity did not contribute.

He said there was reason to doubt the explanation that a match could have been thrown through the open front door. He denied he was guessing.

He accepted nothing was known about the petrol drum referred to by Mr McCann in his statement apart from the fact it was plastic. He also accepted nothing was known about how much petrol might have been spread in the hallway.

Dr Lloyd would have expected to see remains of a plastic container but none were found. He accepted the time it would take for a plastic container to, burn away could be 30 to 60 minutes. It depended on the material of which the container was made, he said.

The trial resumes on Monday.