Tánaiste and O’Callaghan’s dispute over Tusla comments continues

A dispute between Tánaiste Francis Fitzgerald and Fianna Fáil TD Jim O’Callaghan over an alleged discussion about a Tusla file containing false information about Sgt Maurice McCabe continued on Tuesday night.

During an exchange in the Dáil, both Mr O’Callaghan and Ms Fitzgerald, the Minister for Justice, insisted that their individual accounts of a meeting between them last week were correct.

Mr O'Callaghan, Fianna Fáil's justice spokesman, said Ms Fitzgerald had denied that he told her about the Tusla file. He then asked why Ms Fitzgerald had then agreed to consider amendments he suggested without asking him what an RTÉ Prime Time programme was about in which details of the sexual allegations were revealed.

Ms Fitzgerald said Mr O’Callaghan had told her the programme would cover the smear campaign allegations and that she needed to look at the terms of reference or it would leave “egg on our face” about the work that was being done.

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Ms Fitzgerald insisted that “at no time did Deputy O’Callaghan mention Tusla and if he had or if he had said to me he wanted a particular reference in that regard I would have included it”.

She added that Mr O’Callaghan made no reference to Tusla in the Dáil the following day when he made a speech.

Mr O’Callaghan said: “I referred to Tusla in our conversation”.

He asked if it was credible that a Minister for Justice would agree to terms of reference of an important commission of investigation based upon a television programme and not ask what the programme was about.

Ms Fitzgerald insisted that Mr O’Callaghan made a strong case for the terms of reference to be broadened and “made his case on the basis that the way the judge had written them made them too circumscribed”.

The Minister added that “what was in or not in the programme was not the central point”. It was that Mr O’Callaghan wanted clarity on the allegations and that they would be fully investigated.

Enda Kenny

Later Taoiseach Enda Kenny insisted that the first he knew about the Tusla allegations was on RTÉ's Prime Time programme.

Social Democrats TD Róisín Shortall had earlier said that Mr Kenny had refused seven times to answer the question as to when he knew about the allegations.

When Sinn Féin’s Maurice Quinlivan asked the question again Mr Kenny said he heard the allegations for the first time on RTÉ.

His party colleague Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire said there was no way the Taoiseach could have advised Ms Zappone that the allegations would be included in the terms of reference “unless you were aware that that specifically related to smearing of Sgt McCabe by members of the Garda Síochána”.

He said “that’s simply not possible or credible”.

Mr Kenny said he had answered this before Judge Iarflaith O’Neill had responded to two protected disclosures. He said the Cabinet was discussing the terms of reference from the Judge and the Tusla terms were covered by Mr Justice O’Neill.