FitzGerald insists meetings took place

The estate agent Mr Mark FitzGerald rejected the contention that his evidence concerning Mr Denis O'Brien was "untrue, made up and lies".

He was replying to Mr Eoin McGonigal SC, for Mr Denis O'Brien, who said Mr O'Brien would be telling the tribunal that a meeting in the Shelbourne Hotel, Dublin, described by Mr FitzGerald, had never taken place.

Mr FitzGerald said his recollection was different to that of Mr O'Brien.

"As far as I am concerned, there was a conversation in the Shelbourne and I was there," he said.

When it was put to him that Mr O'Brien would also be denying that a meeting took place in a Dublin restaurant, attended by Mr O'Brien, Mr Phil Hogan and the late Mr Jim Mitchell, as described by Mr FitzGerald, Mr FitzGerald said: "It was Lloyds Brasserie, Upper Merrion Street, and those are the people that attended."

Mr FitzGerald told Mr Jerry Healy SC, for the tribunal, that in August 1995 Mr Denis O'Brien called him and asked him to meet for a coffee in the Shelbourne Hotel.

Mr O'Brien told him he was applying for the State's second mobile phone licence and that he was facing an "uphill struggle" against Motorola.

Mr O'Brien said it was rumoured "that Mr Albert Reynolds was in line for a pay-off if Motorola was granted the licence".

Mr FitzGerald said this rumour was not discussed, but mention of it put him "on my guard" for the rest of the conversation.

He said Mr O'Brien said he wanted to keep up his profile with Fine Gael and that he had heard that Fine Gael was having a golf outing.

Mr FitzGerald said he told Mr O'Brien that he thought it would be unwise of him to be involved in circumstances in which he was applying for a licence.

He said that Mr David Austin was running the event if Mr O'Brien really wanted to get involved.

Mr O'Brien contributed £4,000 to the golf classic.

Mr FitzGerald said he received another phone call from Mr O'Brien around the middle of October 1995. Mr O'Brien asked him to meet him at a restaurant close to his office.

"I was surprised when I arrived to find Mr O'Brien sitting at a table with Mr Phil Hogan and the late Mr Jim Mitchell."

As he sat down, Mr O'Brien asked if he had heard any news on the licence.

He told Mr O'Brien that he had bumped into Mr Michael Lowry at the golf classic at the K Club and that Mr Lowry had said Mr O'Brien had made a good impression on the department, that he had good sites and good marketing.

He may also have said that Mr Lowry had said that anyway there would be a third licence.

He was annoyed with himself for telling Mr O'Brien what Mr Lowry had said, even though it had been gratuitous and he believed unimportant.

He felt it should be seen that there was a distance between business and politics and he felt that the issue was getting "a bit fuzzy".

He said that at this stage he was "sceptical" about Mr Lowry.

Mr McGonigal asked Mr FitzGerald if he was surprised that neither Mr Hogan nor Mr Mitchell could recall the meeting in the restaurant.

Mr Mitchell had said so to his solicitor prior to his [Mr Mitchell's\] death.

"This is a tribunal where your credibility is at stake, and I am asking you a straight question," Mr McGonigal said. "Are you surprised?"

Mr FitzGerald said he was surprised and he was at the meeting. He could not help it if the other people at the meeting had no memory of it.

In relation to corporate donations, Mr FitzGerald said that his father had been given advice on the matter by the former leader of the Fine Gael party, Mr Liam Cosgrave. The advice was: "If in doubt, send it back."

Mr FitzGerald is to continue his evidence today.