António Costa jokingly makes a show of checking the time on his wristwatch before answering the question.
The president of the European Council, who chairs the high-level summits of the EU’s 27 leaders, knows that in the twisting negotiations around the Ukraine war, things can change quickly.
“We need to specify that we are talking on the 26th of November at 4.45pm,” he says.
“If you remember well, we started this week with a huge debate about a 28-point plan,” he says.
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In an interview with The Irish Times and six other leading European media outlets, Costa says there has since been a lot of movement in a matter of days.
“We need to avoid commenting on each working paper. We need to focus on the main goal, which is to bring a just and lasting peace as soon as possible to Ukraine.”
A 28-point plan to end the Ukraine war, composed by US and Russian officials, caused huge alarm in Kyiv and the capitals of its European allies. The fear has always been that US president Donald Trump, in pursuit of international credit for brokering a peace deal, will strong-arm Ukraine into accepting one that favours Moscow.
The recent plan triggered days of frantic efforts by Ukraine and European states to push back against the most unacceptable points of the proposal, such as the suggestion Ukrainian forces give up territory in the east that Russia’s invading army had failed to take.
It’s not the first time Kyiv and other European governments have had to employ a full-court diplomatic scramble to tug the White House back from seemingly sliding towards Moscow’s viewpoint in the stop-start negotiations.
Speaking in the Europa Building in Brussels, where the EU summits are hosted, Costa plays down the weight that should be put on the recent US proposal.
“Secretary of state Marco Rubio explained to the world that this is not an official plan, it is not an official proposal from the United States, but just a working paper,” he says.
“All the efforts, especially from president Trump, to push Russia to the negotiating table, are very welcome,” he says.
European leaders keep repeating that a deal cannot be negotiated above their heads, given the terms of any truce will have major consequences for the security of the continent.
“What we agreed with the United States of course, is when it comes to negotiate the issues regarding the European Union, they need to talk with the European Union,” Costa says.
Does Europe have a plan to bring about an end to the full-scale war, which began nearly four years ago when Russia invaded Ukraine?
“Our peace plan started on February 24th 2022, when we met in this building ... and took the decision to ensure full support for Ukraine, diplomatically and economically,” Costa says.
The years since have seen EU states jointly provide Ukraine with huge amounts of military and financial aid. The bloc continues to expand a regime of economic sanctions targeting Russia, with the aim of hampering its ability to finance its war.
The efforts of Trump to put an end to the fighting should be given space to succeed, Costa says. “Creating a parallel channel is not productive.”
However, if Washington comes up short then Europe should explore other ways to bring about a stable ceasefire, he says. “This war has already lasted too long and this war needs to finish. It’s time for Russia to stop the aggression, to stop the killing, to stop destroying the country, and to engage seriously like the Ukrainians are doing,” Costa says.
“Peace cannot mean capitulation and cannot mean a temporary truce, we need an effective peace.”
At the beginning of this year there were concerns the Trump administration might walk away from the Nato military alliance, or pull all support for Ukraine. Those fears had not come to pass, he says. The transatlantic partnership had been “stabilised”.
The former Portuguese prime minister took over as European Council president late last year. The top EU job involves nudging the 27 heads of state and government into agreement on the big-picture decisions for the union. In most cases all 27 must unanimously agree.
Costa’s skills as a mediator will be tested at asummit on December 18th. There, the 27 leaders will be expected to emerge with a decision taken on how they plan to shore up the EU’s future financial support to Kyiv.
European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has proposed using €180 billion in Russian central bank assets – frozen in Europe by economic sanctions – to back a loan.
The money, which would finance Ukraine’s war chest for at least two years, would be repaid only if Moscow agreed to pay compensation for the destruction caused by its invasion.
The assets have been sitting in Euroclear, a Belgian-based depository that holds securities and state bonds. The Belgian government continues to express concerns about using the Russian state assets to finance a “reparations” loan, on the basis it might be exposed to costly legal challenges, or some other retaliation from Moscow.
Sustained negotiations are taking place to get Belgium onside. “It’s an ongoing process but it’s going well,” Costa says.
He hopes legal and technical issues will be ironed out before the other EU leaders arrive in Brussels for the summit.
The group has already given a clear political signal that it would help Ukraine meet the cost of funding its defensive efforts for the next two years. “This is a powerful message and I hope that Russia understands what it means. It means that they cannot count on the exhaustion of Ukraine,” he says.
One significant change since Costa started chairing the EU summits last December is the dynamic between the European Council and the commission.
His predecessor, Charles Michel, had a famously fractious and competitive relationship with von der Leyen, leading to constant squabbling and political positioning between the top man in the Europa Building and his counterpart across the road in the commission’s Berlaymont headquarters.
Repairing that frayed bond between the two most powerful EU institutions was one of Costa’s first jobs.
The former prime minister knew the German commission president from the years he sat around the summit table in his former role, representing Portugal.
The pair have built up a solid trust on the understanding they both have different roles to play, he says. “This is very good for my work, for her work and for the image of the European Union.”
National leaders privately welcome the fact the EU’s top two officials are no longer getting in each other’s way. The summits are smoother too. “My job is not to make decisions, but to help the others make decisions,” Costa says.
He will be judged when they all get together in December.
