No discussion on charges, says Taoiseach

Minister of State Ivor Callely mentioned the nursing home charges to Taoiseach Bertie Ahern during a Dáil vote but they did not have any discussion about the broad substance of the issue, Mr Ahern said.

He told the Dáil that he had not had discussions with Minister of State Tim O'Malley on the issue. But Minister of State, Deputy Callely "said in the correspondence on that matter that two issues arose. One was the distinction between eligibility and entitlement for the over 70s.

He said he mentioned that to me on the margins of a vote," said Mr Ahern.

"The other issue he mentioned was that his department was seeking to get definitive legal opinion on the proper definitions of what was going to happen. That is what he said to me. We did not have any discussions about the broad substance of the issues."

The Taoiseach told Opposition deputies that that was the question on which Deputy Callely was interviewed for the Travers report.

In a submission to the investigation into the controversy and annexed in the Travers report, the secretary general of the Department of Health, Michael Kelly, referred to the key meeting in December 2003 attended by Ministers, senior department officials and health board executives. Mr Kelly stated that notes taken by the secretary at the meeting indicated that Mr Callely indicated his intention to brief both the Taoiseach and the Minister on the problem.

Mr Ahern was answering questions about the effectiveness of the Government's Strategic Management Initiative (SMI) on overall key departmental and governmental objectives for the public service.

Referring to the up to €2 billion cost of the nursing homes controversy, Labour leader Pat Rabbitte said "it beggars belief that the taxpayer is stuck with these bills and that the Taoiseach comes in and says that the strategic management initiative is working".

Mr Ahern said however, that he was replying to a question on whether the SMI had made major improvements in the modernisation of the public service, staff flexibility and the output of the departments.

"That is not to take away from the fact that some departments work under enormous pressures on day-to-day issues," he added.