Mr Charles Haughey yesterday challenged the tribunal lawyer to say whether an approach to all the financial institutions in the State to see if loans had been obtained on his behalf had been comprehensive.
Mr Haughey had suggested that Mr Des Traynor might have gone to some other institution to borrow money. He had been asked where he thought money totalling £105,000 that went into a Guiness & Mahon account in his name in 1979 came from.
Mr John Coughlan SC, for the tribunal, said Mr Haughey had given a waiver for the tribunal to approach all the financial institutions in the State and the tribunal had not uncovered any other loans obtained on his behalf.
"The tribunal hasn't ascertained? Well, I cannot comment on that. Can you say that that was comprehensive and exclusive and that either you or I can say that there was no other possibility of Mr Traynor raising any other funds from any other source either by way of borrowings or otherwise?" Mr Haughey asked.
Mr Coughlan said: "But approaching the matter in a reasonable and rational way I presume you could say that, Mr Haughey. One could have a capricious view that there may be a possibility you - but being reasonable about it . . ."
Mr Haughey said: "I think, Mr Coughlan, my duty would end when I give the tribunal every possible assistance in approaching every possible financial institution to sort out these matters. I cannot be of any further assistance to the tribunal."
Mr Coughlan said every financial institution had been approached and there was no record in 1979 of any loans raised on his behalf or in Mr Traynor's name. There was no evidence of any loans in that period which would account for any part of the lodgments. Mr Haughey asked: "Can we totally exclude the fact that Mr Traynor either by funds at his own disposal or some other way would raise the necessary money to meet these lodgments? I cannot be affirmative about that." The former Taoiseach said he knew Mr Traynor handled funds on his behalf. Mr Coughlan said £105,000 was a very large sum of money in 1979 and was many times his salary as a TD and minister. Was it believable, credible that Mr Traynor would have kept him in ignorance?
"There is absolutely no question that he would not feel it necessary to keep me informed on a day-to-day basis of these matters," Mr Haughey said.
Mr Coughlan put it to him: "My suggestion to you is that that hardly seems credible."
Mr Haughey replied: "I find it incredible that you should say it's incredible."
Asked where he thought Mr Traynor was getting the money, Mr Haughey said: "Well, he had various funds at his disposal some of which were mine in one way or another, loans or otherwise, and it was his function to make sure that as far as possible my expenditures were funded - and that I left to him."