'Talking' could have got Carthy to leave house

THE BARR TRIBUNAL: Mr John Carthy's psychiatrist said yesterday he believed that Mr Carthy could have been talked out of the siege and persuaded to leave his home peaceably.

Dr David Shanley, consultant psychiatrist at St Patrick's Hospital and St James's Hospital said it was "stretching it a bit" to say that Mr Carthy could not have been "talked down".

Mr Carthy was capable of understanding what people were saying to him and knew what was going on, Dr Shanley told the Barr tribunal.

Mr Carthy was shot dead by members of the Garda's Emergency Response Unit at his home in Abbeylara, after a day-long stand-off on Thursday, April 20th, 2000.

Dr Shanley arrived there a few hours before Mr Carthy's death. He went there "with the hope and expectation that I might be able to talk to John".

He knew that Mr Carthy did not want to return to St Loman's psychiatric hospital in Mullingar and thought it might de-escalate the situation if he offered him "sanctuary" at St Patrick's Hospital in Dublin.

However, he never got a chance to talk to his patient. Both he and Mr Carthy's sister Marie asked a garda if they could talk to Mr Carthy but were told that it would be "inappropriate" at that time as he was "irritable and angry". Shortly afterwards, at 5. 45 p.m., Mr Carthy emerged from the house. "I heard shots and I heard people running," Dr Shanley recalled. The shots were "very rapid" and came "within seconds of each other", he said.

"When John was shot, I certainly felt quite shocked, and I think we all did."

Mr Carthy died on Holy Thursday and Dr Shanley said this day appeared to hold great significance for his patient.

Mr Carthy's father and grandfather had died on this day and he had been involved in a workplace accident on that day.

In his first day of giving evidence, Dr Shanley told the tribunal he first saw Mr Carthy on April 11th, 1995, following a referral from his GP, Dr Patrick Cullen.

In his letter to Dr Shanley, Dr Cullen said Mr Carthy had a history consistent with mania/depression and was seeking a second opinion to see if anything further could be done for him.

Dr Cullen said Mr Carthy had attended his surgery with various complaints and pains but "no definitive physical reason was found for any of these".

Mr Carthy told the psychiatrist he had been drinking heavily and had heard voices, particularly when he stopped drinking. He said he had heard the voice of his cousin, telling him that he was "mad". Dr Shanley said he did not think Mr Carthy was psychotic.

Mr Carthy told Dr Shanley he had a breakdown while in Warrenstown agricultural college and had left. He then worked in Pat the Bakers in Granard but had an accident with a trolley.

He had been admitted to St Loman's psychiatric hospital a few times before his first appointment with Dr Shanley.