TALK TIME: EOIN BUTLERtalks to Naoise Nunn, Electiric Picnic's 'Leviathan' curator, about politics, showbiz and Declan Ganley's likely plans.
When did you hold the first Leviathan Political Cabaret?
It was in 2003. We had Pat Rabbitte, Eoghan Harris, John Waters, Ronnie Drew and Des Bishop. It was a strange mixture of guests – we hadn’t quite gotten the formula down yet, I suppose. The idea was political debate in a cabaret environment. So there’s a host, usually David McWilliams, four panellists and a topic. The conversation ebbs and flows, with satire and comedy interspersed throughout. It’s also interactive, with the audience getting stuck in – which they did from the very first night.
Where did the idea come from?Going back to my student days, the nights out I remembered most fondly were the ones where we'd get a lock-in at a pub, and get into huge, heated debates. This was pre-ceasefire Belfast, so we tended not to have those conversations in public at the time. There'd be pints, chat, jokes and maybe finish with a song – that to me was the perfect night out. In a way, that's what Leviathan offers today.
Are there any debates that stand out over the years?
There was a very tense one on the Middle East, at which Alan Shatter and Anjem Choudary spoke. This was shortly after the Danish cartoon controversy and there was quite a strong Garda presence outside. At one point, Choudary telephoned his imam in London to ask if he could even take part, given that alcohol was being served on the premises. In the end, we came to a compromise – we didn’t shut the bar, but we agreed not to serve drink while he was on stage.
As someone with a foot in the world of both politics and show business , do you find that they have much in common?
They do and they don’t. One could be very cynical and say that politics is just a big stage and these players come out and perform their little set pieces. But that isn’t my view really. Politicians have a very important role to play, especially when the country is going through a crisis like the one we’re going through now.
You were very prominent in the anti-Lisbon campaign last year. Now you advocate a Yes vote. What changed your mind?
My objection to the Lisbon treaty was quite academic in some respects. First and foremost, I was doing a job as executive director of Libertas. That’s not to say that I didn’t believe what I was saying, but it was my job to present that position and to be an advocate for a particular position. I still have some difficulties with it, but they are as nothing to the difficulties that this country would face if we were to behave like a spoilt adolescent and reject it for a second time.
You were employed by Rivada Networks, a defence contractor with links to the US military. Was that something you were comfortable with?
Look, I don’t really want to go down that road, Eoin. My job was to work on Libertas, to set up a think tank with the aim of bringing the European Union closer to its citizens, and getting the people of Europe to engage with the more positive aspects of the Union. It turned into something different. In terms of the technicalities – who was my employer and stuff like that – it wasn’t really an issue. That was just accounting. But I was aware of Rivada.
Declan Ganley has said he’s bowing out of politics now. Do you reckon he’ll be back?
No, I think that’s probably it. He was given a pretty sound hiding by the European electorate. Libertas returned just one candidate – a sitting MEP named Philippe de Villiers. He actually had three sitting MEPs in his organisation, so he lost two seats under the Libertas banner. Also, for him not to get a seat himself, that makes it a prettysound rejection in all. He said he knew how to take no for an answer – well, he’s been given that answer. I think he’ll go back to business now.
Finally, what can we expect from Leviathan at the Electric Picnic this year?We've been doing the Picnic for the past couple of years and the Spoken Word Area has gradually expanded to include a science tent, theatre, literature as well as the political cabaret. This year we've got Jon Snow from Channel 4, Ryan Tubridy, BP Fallon, lots of poets and lots of theatre people. It's like a mini Haye-on-Wye festival.
The Leviathan Political Cabaret debates “Does Ireland Need a New Political Party?” at the Button Factory, Temple Bar, on Wednesday, June 24th