Lawlor 'hasn't a clue' how much UK company gave him

Former Fianna Fáil TD Mr Liam Lawlor has said he "hasn't a clue" how much he received in total from a UK property company working with developer Mr Tom Gilmartin.

However, Mr Lawlor denied that he had forgotten over £74,000 in payments paid to him by Arlington Securities, which attempted with Mr Gilmartin to develop a massive shopping centre at Bachelors Walk in Dublin in the late 1980s.

Mr Lawlor repeated his claim that the payments were political donations but Mr Gilmartin and a senior Arlington executive have told the tribunal they were consultancy fees.

On the first day of his evidence in the current module of the tribunal, Mr Lawlor was quizzed about the various versions he has given about the Arlington payments at different times. In 1998, he told a Fianna Fáil inquiry he got a total of £10,000 in two or three payments from Mr Gilmartin, while in 2000 the tribunal heard he got £100,000 from Arlington directly and £35,000 paid through Mr Gilmartin.

The tribunal now believes Mr Lawlor received £35,000 in payments through Mr Gilmartin, and £35,000 sterling directly from the company.

Yesterday, he explained the £100,000 figure was a "guesstimate" prepared under deadline after an exhaustive search of his financial affairs. It was wrong and he was sorry for this.

Mr Lawlor recalled that he first met Mr Gilmartin in May 1988 after being requested to do so by garage-owner Mr Brendan Fassnidge. Mr Gilmartin outlined his plans for a major scheme on Bachelors Walk, and there was some "secondary" discussion of Quarryvale in west Dublin.

He recalled that Mr Gilmartin was proud and enthusiastic about his plans for Bachelors Walk, which in those days resembled "a mouth of bad teeth" with lots of gaps. There was even an illegal itinerant encampment on the site, Mr Lawlor said.

The two men had a follow-on meeting the next day but Mr Gilmartin "kept his cards close to his chest" in relation to his plans for Quarryvale. "This man was telling me he was going to create jobs in the blackest part of Ireland and the biggest headache in my constituency so whatever assistance I would give him I would."

Within three or four weeks, Mr Lawlor said, he met Mr Ted Dadley of Arlington Securities. They had an exploratory meeting in Dublin and a second meeting in London, at which Mr Dadley offered to pay his election expenses.

This arose in the context of a discussion about the cost of standing in elections and the frequency of elections at that time. Mr Lawlor said he was surprised that Mr Dadley made the offer.

He said a contribution hadn't been in his mind. However, Mr Dadley was an "outward-going and flash" figure who was very "flaithiúlach" with his money and entertained lavishly.

Mr Pat Quinn SC, for the tribunal, pointed out that Mr Lawlor, in a statement filed in 1999, indicated that Mr Gilmartin had proposed making political payments to him.

Mr Lawlor said this was wrong. The arrangement was made with Mr Dadley only. He said he saw the Bachelors Walk development as an opportunity to get a part of derelict Dublin rebuilt, at a time when many Irish property companies were struggling financially. But he dismissed allegations that he told Arlington he was representing the Government as "pure nonsense".

Mr Lawlor said Mr Gilmartin was a "willing participant" in the Arlington payments, which were routed through the developer in Dublin.