TV & Radio

Sean Spicer on Newstalk: An intriguing interview with Trump’s disarmingly gormless press guy

Radio review: Kieran Cuddihy challenges the ex-White House insider, but without the peppery zeal aimed at most of his guests

Sean Spicer: “Always interesting.” Photograph: Chip Somodevilla/Getty

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Mick Heaney
Fri Sep 2 2022 - 05:00

Given that his job spec involves having to converse knowledgeably on a broad range of subjects, Kieran Cuddihy could be forgiven for sounding like a know-it-all. On the other hand, for the host of The Hard Shoulder (Newstalk, weekdays) to freely declare that he knows nothing about the topic he’s due to discuss seems like a foolhardy act of chutzpah, no matter that he’s hardly the first broadcaster to wing it. But Cuddihy does just that on Wednesday, opening an interview by asking his guest to indulge “people like myself” who “don’t know what they’re talking about”.

Far from being a career-derailing gaffe, Cuddihy’s admission is a deliberate move, a canny way of signalling his openness as he talks to a Zen Buddhist priest, Myozan Kodo, as part of his show’s series on world religions. Although the conversation can’t encompass the richness and complexity of a 2,500-year-old belief system in 15 minutes (as is also the case with the segments on Christianity and Islam), it skims the surface in stimulating fashion.

Cuddihy is palpably engaged as Kodo outlines the core tenets of his religion – “Buddhism 101″, as he puts it – including the notion that all people are ultimately “wise, compassionate, enlightened beings”.

“I’ve been called a lot of things on this show, rarely ‘enlightened’,” the host ruefully replies. Sceptical asides notwithstanding, he clearly enjoys the conversation, which is enlightening in at least one sense.

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If Kieran Cuddihy is happy to confess to gaps in his knowledge, he’s also ready to pounce when he detects holes in the arguments of others. ‘Those comparisons are kind of worthless, aren’t they?’ he asks one guest

If Cuddihy is happy to confess to gaps in his knowledge, he’s also ready to pounce when he detects holes in the arguments of others. During Tuesday’s discussion of public-service pay talks, Neil McDonnell of the business lobby group ISME states that public servants earn 27 per cent more than private-sector workers, drawing a dismissive reaction from the host: “Those comparisons are kind of worthless, aren’t they?” It’s unfair to compare the sectors, Cuddihy claims, given the number of minimum-wage employees in the private sphere and its far greater share of workers overall.

Similarly, when the Fine Gael Senator Barry Ward cites Ireland’s strong macroeconomic performance while arguing against demands for a wealth tax, Cuddihy snorts: “GDP is not really worth squat if you’re on a hospital waiting list.”

These sharp interventions seem motivated more by irritation at inconsistency than by ideological opposition: the host is equally brusque when left-leaning guests go skating on rhetorical thin ice. And he appears willing to forgive wonky logic if the guest brings a bit of fizz to proceedings. Certainly that seems to be the case with the former White House press secretary Sean Spicer, who appears on Tuesday’s show to discuss the recent FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago, the Florida home of his ex-boss Donald Trump.

Predictably, Spicer is critical of the raid. He wonders whether it was necessary to retrieve the classified papers in Trump’s possession in such spectacular manner: the offending documents, he suggests, “do not pose a grave national-security threat”. It’s a reasonably cogent argument, only slightly undercut by Spicer’s comment that he’s “positing” the content of some documents. Such instances call to mind the wildly inaccurate and widely mocked claims he made about attendance numbers at Trump’s inauguration, later memorably characterised as “alternative facts”.

‘Always interesting,’ Cuddihy says of Sean Spicer, with something like dismayed wonder at Donald Trump’s disarmingly gormless former White House press secretary

Even so it’s an intriguing interview. Spicer is alive to the polarising effect of Trump, the original know-nothing, noting the raid has “hardened the support or opposition to him”. He also enjoys a lively rapport with Cuddihy, who challenges some assertions, but without the peppery zeal aimed at some other guests. “Always interesting,” the host concludes, with something like dismayed wonder at the disarmingly gormless Spicer. Whatever else, Cuddihy knows arresting radio when he hears it.

Elsewhere, Andrea Gilligan works hard to generate some sizzle on Lunchtime Live (Newstalk, weekdays), even if she’s not always working with prime-cut material. On Wednesday Gilligan covers the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council’s analysis that people under 50 face increased taxes to maintain the current retirement age in suitably splashy style. “How do you feel about potentially paying two and a half grand extra a year in tax for something that you will not benefit from?” the host asks, as she identifies as one of this younger tranche: “We won’t get this luxury.”

As one might expect, the first caller, a thirtysomething named Ian, is “pretty annoyed” at the idea, while Gilligan continues to ramp up the mood. “You’re being asked to pay for something you’re never even going to get,” she says, overlooking the fact that no one has yet been asked to pay anything.

True, some interesting issues are raised, such as the declining worker-retiree ratio and the short-term nature of the public pension system, but it’s caller rather than host who points this out. This may well be a deliberate tactic on Gilligan’s part, allowing guests to take the conversational lead — “What’s your take?” is her regular refrain — but it can give the unfortunate impression that such basic information is news to the host.

Andrea Gilligan is well capable of dealing with tricky topics, but asking listeners to vent on think-tank proposals speaks of a slightly desperate need to keep things sparky

Likewise, when her next caller, Brenda, notes that older people funded further education they could never avail of, Gilligan sounds pleasantly surprised by this insight into how tax works. Instead of pursuing this, however, the host seizes on Brenda’s observation that the issue has the old and young “at each other’s throats”. “So you think it’s an intergenerational war?” asks the host, who’s been pitching the topic in similar terms.

Ultimately, Gilligan’s congenial style isn’t made for controversy. The presenter is well capable of dealing with tricky topics: she has a thought-provoking discussion with fans of the indie band Arcade Fire about whether to attend the group’s Dublin concerts following sexual-misconduct allegations against Win Butler, the band’s singer. On the other hand, asking listeners to vent on think-tank proposals speaks of a slightly desperate need to keep things sparky, a pressure surely exacerbated by the lurking presence as stand-in host of Adrian Kennedy, whose defunct phone-in show on Dublin’s FM104 was a popular stomping ground for the angry and unhinged. Gilligan’s talents aren’t a natural fit for the sensationalist approach, however: she should know better.

Radio Moment of the Week

There’s much to enjoy on Tuesday’s Arena (RTÉ Radio 1, weekdays). First up, its presenter, Seán Rocks, has an agreeably rambling conversation with the actor Timothy Spall about his new film, his sideline as a painter and, in passing, his enjoyment of hearing the news read as Gaeilge. Later Rocks has a pithy chat with the Belfast poet Michael Longley, who discusses the avian theme of his new book, The Slain Birds: “They’re like souls flying above our heads,” he says.

Longley gives a quietly resonant reading of his poem Tawny Owl, which concludes with his granddaughter clutching a dead bird’s feathers while promising to look after the “poor owl”. Rocks asks if Longley is directly quoting his granddaughter. “Those were her exact words, although of course I’m not above doctoring anyone’s words,” Longley replies impishly. Poetic licence, as it were.

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