Witnesses unable to confirm size of sums in Ahern safes

Two witnesses told the tribunal yesterday that Taoiseach Bertie Ahern did keep cash in two safes in his offices between 1987 and 1994, but neither could confirm if the sums were sizeable.

Mr Ahern had told the tribunal that he kept £20,000 in his safe in his ministerial office and £30,000 in his safe at St Luke's, his constituency office in Drumcondra.

Brendan Ward, former private secretary to Mr Ahern when he was minister for finance, said Mr Ahern kept cash in a banker's pouch in his safe at his ministerial office. He said he saw the pouch when he put papers into the safe. It was plastic and about an inch and a half thick with notes protruding from it, Mr Ward said. But he did not know the denominations or the currency.

Counsel for the tribunal, Henry Murphy SC, asked Mr Ward if it was possible that the money he saw was £20,000.

Mr Ward said he did not know how thick £20,000 would look if it was in £50 notes.

"I would have believed it was his salary but I simply don't know," he said.

Mr Murphy pointed out that in his private interview with the tribunal, Mr Ward had said he did not believe the money was even "approaching a thousand". Mr Ward said it was very hard for him to speculate.

He was also asked if he recalled whether Mr Ahern kept cash in a locked drawer in his desk.

Mr Ahern had told the tribunal in private interview that he kept some of his cash in a locked drawer in his ministerial office. Mr Ward said he was not aware of it and never came across a locked drawer, but agreed that some of the drawers were lockable.

He said his only concern was to ensure that the money did not go missing.

Sandra Cullagh, secretary to Mr Ahern at St Luke's, said she was also aware of money in the Taoiseach's safe there. She said she would see the money when she put files into the safe, but she could not tell the tribunal how much it was.

"I would respect the Taoiseach's privacy, I wouldn't look at the money or touch the money," she said.

Tribunal chairman Judge Alan Mahon pressed Ms Cullagh to say how much money she thought it might be.

"You would get an impression by simply looking at it," he said.

However, Ms Cullagh said she went rarely to the safe, and did not like to look at the money.

Counsel for the tribunal Annette Foley BL, questioned Ms Cullagh about 12 cheques issued by Mr Ahern in September 2006 in repayment of two loans, totalling £39,000, given to him by friends in 1993 and 1994.

Ms Cullagh agreed that she had filled in the cheques and said she typed up the acknowledgments which were later signed by the recipients.

However, when pressed for details, she said she could not recall and said if she had known she was going to be asked, she would have consulted her files. It was agreed that she could consult her files and return to the tribunal to give evidence in the New Year.