SEANAD: JOE O'TOOLE(Ind) said he believed everyone, including gardaí, had the right to withdraw their labour as they thought fit.

He knew the Garda Commissioner had told the Garda bodies they would be breaking the law if they took strike action. He would like to have this clarified. He did not know what law they would be breaking.

It seemed to him the Constitution was very clear about a person’s right to withdraw their labour, and the right to associate. The House should be aware that in many European countries police officers were members of trades unions or similar associations.

It was possible people felt that gardaí should not go on strike, but this was separate from saying they did not have the right to do so.

The abuse and cover-up disclosed by the Murphy report was Ireland's "gulag", Geraldine Feeney(FF) said. She said she had sympathy for Bishop Eamon Casey and Annie Murphy, with whom he had fathered a child. "Archbishop Martin said he had no authority to seek the resignation of bishops identified in this report. Yet, the Irish church saw fit to banish a man like Eamon Casey for doing what comes natural to any human being, in terms of his being with a woman, to the farthest end of South America."

Paul Bradford(FG) said generations of Irish sang songs about being downtrodden by the British, but we really were downtrodden by ourselves. "We have always deferred to authority in a way that is quite unique among western European nations. It is time for Irish society to lose the chains of deference and walk a little taller. This would be a positive step in trying to form a new relationship between church and State."

Lisa McDonald(FF) said everyone in society must ask why they had allowed this situation of clerical abuse to continue. "People claim they did not know, but I do not believe them."

Jerry Buttimer(FG) said that speaking as someone who had spent five years in a seminary until 1990 and who was a regular Mass-goer, he felt the Ryan and Murphy reports left a sense of anger, bewilderment and the need for repentance by the church.

Ann Ormonde(FF) noted Senator Buttimer had spoken of the idea of bringing in a new constitution. "I believe we have to go down that road because the relationship between the church and the State has broken down. I congratulate Archbishop Martin in saying this is the end of the road for the church of the past."

Fidelma Healy-Eames(FG) said she was sure children in Ireland were being abused today. Terrible reports were emerging from the direct provision centres catering for immigrants. She was referring to the trafficking of minors and other matters.

Camillus Glynn(FF) said an investigation should be carried out in every diocese and, if necessary, in every parish, for the benefit of abuse survivors. This should be done on an all-island basis.

Joe O'Reilly(FG) said the Ryan and Murphy reports made for horrendous reading, and represented a shameful part of our heritage.

Mary White(FF) said it was a matter of profound regret the deference which so many people had shown to the church had facilitated the abuse of children.

Frances Fitzgerald,Fine Gael leader in the House, said we were definitely at a crossroads in terms of church-State relations.

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahernsaid it was essential church authorities showed a firm resolve to ensure the highest standards of child protection were applied.