MIRROR MEN

Indie electronic icons Matt Black and Jonathan more, aka Coldcut, are back with only their fourth album in nearly two decades. Why the paltry output? Matt Black tells Jim Carroll that, frankly, there's just too many other interesting things to do

MILESTONES, there've been a few. That's what comes with spending 19 years doing hard labour at electronic music's coalface. What began when Jonathan More sold a bootleg of Maceo & The Macks to Matt Black in a London record shop in 1987 has morphed into an epic tale involving cut-and-paste pop, Lisa Stansfield, ambient classics, innovative technology and a whole lot of grooves.

You could say that the story of Coldcut is also the story of the twists and turns electronic music has taken these past two decades.

Today, Black is on the phone to talk about Sound Mirrors, Coldcut's current album. It's their fourth in all, which is a pretty derisory tally after 19 years on the go, until you take all the other stuff which Black and More have done in that time into account.

When Black talks about this other stuff, there's a danger he'll go down a path and never be seen again. It's a long list, taking in the Ninja Tune label, VJamm software, PirateTV.net, the Solid Steel radio show, mix albums, art installations and a myriad of other projects.

But writing, recording and releasing a new album? That, Black admits, took a bit of effort. "Jon and I are interested in a lot of different things, and so we get involved in a lot of projects which keep us away from making Coldcut music. It's been eight years since the last album, so there came a point when we decided we had to concentrate on making an album. We put some of the side projects on hold and went into the studio."

Sound Mirrors is just the kind of thing you would imagine old ravers coming up with. Awash with sparkling, emotive songs, the album shows that Coldcut's own magic touch has not gone AWOL during their studio hiatus.

Sure, there are guests aplenty, and there's much to admire about the folky reach of Jon Mathias singing on Man in a Garage and the epic, euphoric, timeless sound of Robert Owens on Walk a Mile. But it's Coldcut themselves who ensure this is a deep, funky and very smart set.

Black, though, toes a very modest line. "It would be great to claim that Sound Mirrors is down to the two of us and our fantastic strong vision, but it's actually a team effort. I think it's the only way to go. To really step up your game in such a competitive environment, you do need the openness to listen to other people. That team has been the Ninja Tune people."

The idea to work with Robert Owens, for instance, came from someone working at the Ninja Tune label. "We had Walk a Mile written for a while and we'd tried another vocalist out for it, but it wasn't working. We were listening to it one day in the office and one of the label staff suggested Robert Owens and a light bulb just came on in our head. He's now living in London and it was easy to hook up with him."

As far as Black is concerned, this album, like all their other work, is the result of one big happy accident. "We've been making it up as we go along from the very start, right from recording onto cassette tapes to having a No 1 single with The Only Way Is Up. There's been no plan to it. We were never taught to be hit record producers."

Still, the ex-art teacher (More) and former computer programmer (Black) have come a long way from such sample-based records as Say Kids, What Time Is It? and remixes of Eric B and Rakim's Paid in Full, with which they first made their name. Since then, they've enjoyed spells as chart regulars (manning the decks behind Yazz and Lisa Stansfield for hits like The Only Way Is Up and People Hold On), ambient pioneers (their Autumn Leaves remains a classic of that canon) and mix-album kingpins (no one has yet bettered their 1996 Journeys by DJ compilation). "Making it up as we go along" ended a long time ago.

The hunger to stay innovative, though, is as strong now as ever. "Maybe because we haven't become millionaires in the course of our careers, we're still keen to improve our game," says Black. "We've got better at what we do over the last few years, and I think you can hear that in the production on the album."

They've also now got well-tuned vehicles to get them from A to B, such as the Ninja Tune label, which provides quirky digs for many acts. "One of the reasons why we started Ninja Tune was that we wanted the freedom to do what we wanted to do and follow our own noses. We found when we signed to a label that we ended up going through the music industry machine, which tends to take away a lot of control from the artist. Worse, it treats you as a product and a cog in the machine."

Coldcut and Ninja have allowed them to become involved in other activities. "Having music as a base has been a very good launch pad for all sorts of things which have never been mass-market projects. They're all research and development projects because we like to get scratchy and dirty and hack through the tech jungle with our machetes.

"We always push on and try to find new things. Innovators often don't get paid or recognised, so we're happy to have enough success to allow us to keep going back for more."

When Coldcut released their last album (Let Us Play) in 1997, much of their interview chatter then was about technology and the internet. Nine years on, many of the developments which the pair predicted have come to pass. Black regards these developments as something of a mixed blessing. "Some are good, some are bad. I'm not going to jump up and down and say that MP3s are wonderful. They're wonderful and a pain at the same time."

There are, however, many positives. "What I like about the internet is that it helps independent operators like us more than it helps the huge, established artists and labels. It has largely broken the monopoly the large companies had on physical distribution and promotion.

"That's got a long way to go yet, and I'm optimistic about how technology and the internet can help the Long Tail, which we are definitely part of."

For Black and More, the only way is still up. Black acknowledges that the pair make a good team. "My granddad was a well-known cult architect in the 1930s, a guy called Wells Coates, and my mum said he suffered from never having a regular creative partner to work with.

"I think Jon and I have had a good partnership, and Coldcut and Ninja Tune have provided good vehicles for us to get involved in different things which interest us. Of course, we justify all these different things by saying that they synthesise together to help Coldcut make more interesting music.

"That's our story and we're sticking to it."

Sound Mirrors is out now. Coldcut play The Village, Dublin on April 22nd