Call for clear division between State and church

The Catholic Church's record was such that the State could not accept that it would be truthful or capable of self-regulation, Liz O'Donnell (PD, Dublin South) claimed during a debate on the Ferns report on clerical child sex abuse.

Calling for a clear division between church and State, Ms O'Donnell said the late disclosure of files to the Ferns inquiry showed that the instinct for self-preservation and denial was still rife.

"The 'no more Mr Nice Guy' approach by the State means no longer countenancing the unhealthy enmeshing of the church in the secular layers of society.

"It means no more consultation between church and State on IVF, on abortion services, on stem-cell research, on Ireland's support for family planning in the Third World, on contraception or supports for single mothers, on adoption, homosexuality or civil marriage."

Ms O'Donnell, a former minister of state for foreign affairs, criticised the "unrelenting deference expected and given at State functions, and in terms of diplomatic protocol, where the papal nuncio is numero uno in our diplomatic corps".

She said in a democracy all views could be articulated but the special relationship was over.

"The deference is over. The cosy phone calls from All Hallows to Government Buildings must end."

It also meant looking at the church's almost universal control of education. Despite the State paying the bulk of the building and running costs, the church authorities privately owned and controlled the vast majority of national schools, with the bishops patrons of 95 per cent of them. The same institution found so wanting effectively decided who was suitable to work in schools.

She criticised the blanket indemnity given by the State to the religious orders, adding that the taxpayer could be liable for three or four times the estimated €250 million.

Given the nature and extent of the institution's wrongdoing against citizens, the church should be obliged to open its books. "Discovery orders should be made to gain some understanding of the money trail."

The first response of the State must be to unequivocally state that the special relationship was no more, and to take steps to demonstrate that disconnect between State and church.

"From now on, with that veil of deference removed, the State can deal with the church authorities in the same way as it would any other voluntary or State agency that provides services for children and families."

She said the unrelenting deference which constituted the relations between church and State must end. "It was given and expected. It was extremely influential in terms of outcome. It must end absolutely."

Ms O'Donnell said the systemic failure outlined in the report meant that nothing less was acceptable. "If the church leadership, the hierarchy, were a cabinet, it would resign en masse or be thrown out of office.

"But the church is neither democratic nor accountable. In many ways it is a secret organisation, with its own diplomatic service, civil service, laws and self-regulatory codes which have failed the public.

"Because the church in Ireland was the main interface with God, the Irish people and the State have shown deference personally and collectively over many decades. This veil of deference is the root cause of society's failure to stop the church's systemic maladministration and dereliction of duty to protect children as outlined in terms of the report.

"Because what happened in one diocese is just a microcosm of the situation in all dioceses, the findings are damning in their import. The fact is that there have been hundreds of crimes of clerical abuse against children which went unpunished. Priests were transferred instead of being exposed. Priests with propensity to offend were ordained, appointed to curacies. Bishops colluded and covered up these matters."

She recalled de Valera's drafts of the Constitution "being edited, page by page, by the hierarchy, and my own party's unhappy but courageous suggestion of disengagement known as 'taking God out of the Irish Constitution'."

There were battles, mostly lost, between State and church; "the pregnant women isolated and condemned from pulpits, dismissed from schools, banished to Magdalene laundries, all the acts of the non-loving church".

Labour health spokeswoman Liz McManus said Ms O'Donnell's speech was lacking in honesty and an attempt to rewrite history. The PDs shared equal responsibility with FF for decisions, including the "infamous indemnity deal".