Chris Mullin: ‘The UK is now more insular, isolated and divided’

Tell me about your new book, Didn’t You Use to Be Chris Mullin? (Diaries 2010–2022)

This is my fourth volume of diaries. The others covered the rise and fall of New Labour from the first moment to the last. This one covers the 12 turbulent years since I retired from parliament. Highlights include Brexit, the rise and inevitable fall of Jeremy Corbyn, and the rise and equally inevitable fall of Boris Johnson. It ends with the death of Queen Elizabeth.

What’s the story behind the title?

Visiting parliament two years after I retired, I came across a former colleague who peered at me over the top of his glasses and said, “Didn’t You Use to be Chris Mullin?” I replied, “Thank you. That will be the title for volume four.”

Do you regret retiring from parliament in 2010?

At the time, I had doubts as to whether or not retirement was a good idea. In the event, it turned out well. I’ve had a wonderful 12 years. Had I remained in parliament, I would have spent 10 years or more ya-booing on the backbenches, to no effect whatever.

[ Birmingham Six member Hugh Callaghan dies aged 93 ]

What have you been doing since?

Among other things, I’ve been a judge of the Man Booker Prize, chaired the Heritage Lottery Fund in the northeast, served on the council of the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust, and I am currently on the board of the Northumberland National Park. I have also taken part in about 200 literary festivals and other book-related events in Ireland the UK.

Tell me about your walled garden in Northumberland.

Having lived for 40 years in some of the tougher parts of the inner cities, I figured I’d served my time. Soon after I retired, my wife and I had the good fortune to acquire a cottage in a small walled garden in a beautiful part of Northumberland. We are very happy here. I intend to be carried out.

How would you sum up this period of Tory rule?

Thanks to Brexit, the UK is now more insular, isolated and divided than at any time in my life.

As a Labour politician, is the state of the UK worse than it was under Thatcher?

George Osborne has a lot to answer for. His foolish attempt to pay down the deficit in four years devastated most of the main public services and widened the gap between the fortunate and the unfortunate to an extent not seen since Thatcher.

[ UK court rules that Chris Mullin need not reveal his sources ]

How best to reset Anglo-Irish relations and Stormont politics post-Brexit?

Sooner or later the UK is going to have to rejoin the Single Market, if EU members will allow us back. As for Stormont, in the long term a united Ireland is inevitable.

Has Labour lost touch with working-class voters?

To some extent, largely thanks to Brexit. However, many former Labour voters are beginning to notice that Brexit hasn’t worked out too well. The real political divide in the UK is between young and old.

Is Labour going to win the next election?

Probably. Much depends on how many seats the party regains in Scotland. When I retired in 2010, Labour held 42 of the 56 Scottish seats. Today it has just one.

Is the literary festival the new political meeting?

Yes.

Who are your favourite diarists?

Sasha Swire’s Diary of an MP’s Wife sheds a fascinating light on the lives of the small elite at the top of David Cameron’s Tory Party. Chip Channon’s outrageous diaries are worth dipping into. Jock Colville’s account of life as Churchill’s private secretary during the war is absolutely gripping.

What makes a good diary?

A good diary should be witty, perceptive, irreverent, self-deprecating and should take the reader into places he or she cannot ordinarily go. At all costs, avoid pomposity.

You write admiringly of Belfast thriller-writer Adrian McKinty. Who else do you rate?

Graham Greene is my favourite author. The Quiet American is his masterpiece. I re-read it every time I go back to Vietnam.

What projects are you working on?

Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the Birmingham pub bombings. There will be a new, updated version of my book Error of Judgement, and there are likely to be some documentaries in which I may be involved.

[ Botched IRA warning was crucial factor in Birmingham pub bomb deaths, inquest finds ]

The Birmingham Six with Chris Mullin MP (centre) outside the Old Bailey in London following their release: (from left) John Walker, Paddy Hill, Hugh Callaghan, Richard McIIkenny, Gerry Hunter and William Power. Behind them is Paul Hill of the Guildford Four. Photograph: Joe St Leger

Chris Mullin’s book Error of Judgement: The Truth About the Birmingham Bombings.

What is the best writing advice you have heard?

Keep your paragraphs short and never screw a colleague.

Who do you admire the most?

Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama of Tibet, Pope John XXIII – men who rose to greatness but remained humble. Also, David Attenborough and Greta Thunberg for helping to awaken us to the threats to the survival of the planet.

You are supreme ruler for a day. Which law do you pass or abolish?

I would ban the manufacture of plastic.

Which public event affected you most?

Aside from 9/11, the assassination of John F Kennedy and the end of the Vietnam War, the release of the Birmingham Six on March 14th, 1991.

[ Corbyn ‘not electable as prime minister’, says Mullin ]

The most remarkable place you have visited?

Hanoi, circa 1980, before the coming of market forces.

Your most treasured possession?

Photos and videos of my children when they were growing up.

What is your favourite quotation?

“There is more to life than shopping.”

Who is your favourite fictional character?

Harry Perkins, prime minister in my first novel, A Very British Coup.

Didn’t You Used to be Chris Mullin? (Diaries 2010-2022) is published by Biteback