Back to the trade union movement after a stint with Concern (Part 2) - The Interview

VB: What did you achieve with Concern?

DB: First of all the organisation has expanded quite a lot in the last four years. When I came in here in 1997 we were in 14 countries. We are working in 27 now. The size of our overall programme has increased quite a lot. Last year a total income of £42 million. I think in 1997 it was about £22 million.

So, in terms if you like of physical size, we have moved quite a distance. Also I hope that I have managed to give it something of a reasonable profile in public place. In addition, we have formulated strategic plans for the first time. The second of these is now almost completed and it takes us from the end of this year to the end of 2004.

VB: What parts of the world has Concern been in over the last four years?

DB: Our most recent involvement has been in Afghanistan. Just immediately before that was India, Gujarat, where the massive earthquake occurred in January. We were also in Ethiopia and in Mozambique. (These are the areas of Concern's most recent emergency operations.)

We were able to do quite a lot in Ethiopia, or rather quite a lot in the two areas we are working in, in the north and the south. We were in a good position to intervene in the early stages of the most recent famine there because Father Jack Finucane has a special knowledge of the region, having spent years there. He was able to pinpoint where the crisis areas were most likely to arise because he had been present during the famine in 1984 and again in 1972.

We were able to work with our own resources, and with Liz O'Donnell in Ireland Aid, to prevent the nutritional status of the population from declining as rapidly as it would otherwise have done.

Afghanistan is a very difficult situation for us. We are working in the Northern Alliance area which is about 10 per cent of the total land area of the country - the other 90 per cent is controlled by the Taliban. There are terrible problems there.

VB: How many people are there in Concern now?

DB: About 2,400 altogether. Most of these would be indigenous to the 27 countries we operate in and we have 135 expatriates of different nationalities of whom just under 50 per cent would be Irish, about 60. There are also Australians, Americans, New Zealanders, Filipinos.

VB: Are you recruiting Irish people?

DB: Yes. Our biggest single problem these days is getting enough people.

VB: What kind of people are you looking for?

DB: Well, ideally we need experienced people because in our problem areas it is very hard to send in somebody who is not experienced. The most difficult three countries at the moment are Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Burundi, particularly the DRC.

We need people, first of all, to negotiate with governments, because that will be a big part of it. Secondly, people who are experienced in operating in effectively a war zone, who can operate and look after other people. And people who have good experience so that they know how to design and deliver fairly good quality programmes.

VB: For what period are they required?

DB: Ideally if you're talking about somebody at country director level, you would want somebody at least for two years. We would be hoping for longer than that because part of the work is establishing contact within the country and building up relationships.

It is difficult to do that if you change over your people too soon. But to be quite honest, at present we really would look seriously at anybody for any length of time that could fulfil those requirements.

VB: Why are you leaving Concern?

DB: First of all I should say that my contract with Concern is five years. I would have hoped that if it had gone the full five years, it might have been renewed. This position in the ICTU came up, and with my background I would view it as a historically important position, something which would probably come up once in a lifetime. I also received representations from a lot of people within the trade union movement to go forward for it.

Against that, I had to balance out the commitment to the work I had been doing and, you know, it was not too easy to make a decision to move away from that. There were other considerations in it, too, from a family point of view which are sort of private. But in the round I took the decision that this was something I would put myself forward for.

VB: Your work with Concern must surely be far more important than anything you could do with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions?

DB: Yes, unquestionably. I can't dispute that, because it is more important work. On the other hand, there are practical things that I can do from the level of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. Let me give you an example. The Government has agreed that it will meet [the commitment to allocate] the 0.7 per cent of GNP for development assistance over the period up to 2007.

VB: Do you believe them?

DB: I believe that they intend to do it now.

VB: Every government since the mid-1970s . .

DB: Well, for a start I don't think they've ever said this in the form that they did up to now.

VB: The commitment has been in several manifestos?

DB: Ah yes, but who reads manifestos? The Taoiseach did say that to the United Nations so I have reason to believe that it was a considered enough decision. Certainly I also know that in the Department of Foreign Affairs they have gone into overdrive in terms of figuring out how they are going to effectively spend that money over the period.

If there was to be a sharp downturn in the public finances that commitment, however sincerely made last year, might well be derailed or pressure would come to derail it. The point I am making is that I, in the position I will be in, would have some chance to influence that in some way.

In real terms, if you look at the last year, Concern's budget was £42 million. The Department of Foreign Affairs budget in 2007, if you assume 0.7 per cent and if you assume 5 per cent GNP growth per annum, would be over £800 million. So in absolute terms it is a much more significant figure.

VB: What do you see as the main challenges as general secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions?

DB: In the immediate sense the challenges will be to see what is going to happen after the current national agreement expires. I think in the broader sense there is a challenge about maintaining the level of trade union membership within the country.

There are other sorts of lower-level challenges about what we are going to do about Nice, what we are going to do about the internal structures of congress and what we are going to submit to Government for the Budget.

VB: You might find, indeed ICTU might find, that with your experience in Concern you would have a stronger commitment to equality than ICTU might like.

DB: I don't really know. It is certainly true that my perspective has changed a lot in the last four years. Equally, I had been disengaged from trade union affairs for that length of time and while I am not too sure what the current state of thinking is, I really can't say how it will be. But from my point of view I'm too long in the tooth to want to surrender any of the things I think are right at this stage.

VB: Do you have a view on how Michael O'Reilly was treated by the ATGWU? Do you think he has been treated fairly?

DB: I have no idea. I don't know the nature of the case against him. Apparently this investigation has been going on for some time, but in truth I know no more about it than what has been in the newspapers.

I am sorry it has happened, on a personal level for him and for the colleague that is involved in it, but really I can make no judgment on the nature of the case one way or the other and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so.

VB: What do you hope to achieve as general secretary of ICTU?

DB: I hope I can maintain and increase the influence of the trade union movement in civil society in Ireland. I hope that I can contribute towards the objective of the country being a long-term prosperous and reasonably fair country.