Soldier says he shot at two gunmen and hit both targets

A soldier has told the Saville Inquiry that he shot two gunmen on Bloody Sunday.

A soldier has told the Saville Inquiry that he shot two gunmen on Bloody Sunday.

The soldier, known only as Soldier C, told the inquiry in London that he thought he had hit his targets.

The soldier, who was a private in Support Company, 1 Para, said in a written statement that he had reached the top of a flight of steps to the balcony of a small block of flats in Derry on January 30th, 1972, when he heard the sound of automatic gunfire.

"This was not a riot but close-quarters warfare and very dangerous," he said.

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He stopped at the top of a sloping ramp and saw the "dark shadow of a person in a long coat" appear either from behind a corner of a building or from behind a door.

"The person seemed to be holding what I thought was a Kalashnikov rifle," he said.

"I cannot now actually recall seeing the weapon being fired but I definitely can visualise the person holding the weapon and lifting the gun slowly.

"I cannot now recall firing my weapon and if so, whether I hit the gunman ... if I did fire, it is because the man must have fired his weapon." But questioned about the gunman by Mr Alan Roxburgh, counsel to the inquiry, he said: "When they disappear you think you have hit them, you hope you have taken them away from being a danger." Soldier C also fired three shots at a gunman or woman firing from a window, he said.

He agreed with Mr Roxburgh that he had stated in 1972 that he had hit him in the chest or arm, which meant he thought he had either wounded or killed him.

Mr Roxburgh asked Soldier C about evidence he gave to the Widgery Tribunal into Bloody Sunday in 1972 that he was lying on the ramp when he fired at the first gunman.

It was suggested in cross-examination at Widgery that he could not have seen the gunman if lying down because of a low wall.

He said today: "Now I am not saying ... whether I would be kneeling, standing or lying, but I definitely fired the two rounds, you know." And in his statement he said: "I probably lay down during the sound of incoming fire and then rose to a standing position when I was ready to shoot back.

"To get from a lying to standing position, I had to kneel. He [a lawyer at the Widgery tribunal] was trying to make out that my evidence was unreliable and that I was a liar.

"It is only now that I realise what he was trying to do."

Soldier C confirmed that in November 1996 he was convicted in the Crown Court on a charge of obtaining property by deception, to which he pleaded guilty.

The property he was convicted of obtaining by deception was worth £12,000, and the nature of the deception was a building job which was said to be overpriced, he said.

He agreed he was sentenced to three years and served 18 months.

Asked by Mr Roxburgh if he had told the truth in his evidence to the tribunal about the events of Bloody Sunday, he said: "Everything to my memory and the best of my knowledge and truthfulness, everything that there is."

The tribunal is investigating the events of January 30th, 1972, when 13 civil rights marchers were shot dead in Derry. A 14th man died later.

In a statement to the Royal Military Police in the early hours of the day after Bloody Sunday, Soldier C said the first gunman had "a long stick-like object which he put into the aim position".

Mr Arthur Harvey QC, representing some of the families of the dead and wounded, showed Soldier C a picture of a Kalashnikov and asked him how he could describe it to a Royal Military policeman as being a stick.

Soldier C replied: "A 'stick-like object' is what I said, sir."

Pressed further, he said: "If you were to see the front part of that coming out from underneath a coat, that could possibly be a stick." He added: "When it came into the hand position, I knew it was not a stick."

Mr Harvey asked whether by the time Soldier C came to make a Treasury Solicitor's statement on March 5, 1972, he had been advised that if he did not say the man had fired at him and he had actually seen a gun, there might be a possibility he could be charged with murder.

"No, nobody said that to me, no," Soldier C said.

Asked if he had thought that, he said: "No, not at all."

The hearing resumes tomorrow.