Persona chairman and Desmond met - witness

MORIARTY TRIBUNAL: An associate of the chairman of Persona told the Moriarty tribunal he witnessed him having a conversation with Mr Dermot Desmond at Aintree in April 1995.

Mr Michael McGinley said he introduced Mr Tony Boyle, chairman of the Persona consortium, to Mr Desmond while they were all in the box of Mr J.P. McManus at Aintree.

He told Mr John Coughlan SC, for the tribunal, he made his statement when informed in December 2002 that Mr Desmond was denying the conversation had taken place.

Mr Boyle has stated that during a conversation at Aintree Mr Desmond said he knew who Mr Denis O'Brien would use to "get to" Mr Michael Lowry, the minister. The competition for the State's second mobile-phone licence was under way in April 1995. Mr Desmond has said that no such conversation occurred at Aintree or anywhere else.

Mr McGinley said he saw Mr Boyle speaking to Mr Desmond. Mr Boyle told him something of what had been said after the conversation, and in February 1996 had told him of the alleged comment concerning getting to Mr Lowry. The Persona director said he believed Mr Boyle.

Mr McGinley added that he knew Mr Desmond for many years, though they had no business relationship. "I like the man. I have nothing against him." He said he had dismissed the alleged comment and still did not know "if there was something going on or not". He did not consider raising the matter with Department of Transport, Energy or Communications officials or writing about it to the taoiseach, Mr John Bruton.

He did not agree with the suggestion from Mr Coughlan that he might be "backing Mr Boyle" because he was disgruntled with the outcome of the licence competition or because he had an interest in the outcome of the case Persona was taking against the State.

He told Mr Robert Barron, for Mr Desmond, his complaint after the competition was that he could not get an answer from the Department as to why Persona did not win. He said to Mr Hugh O'Neill SC, for Persona: "We wouldn't be sitting here today if it was done properly."

Mr Proinsías De Rossa, minister for social welfare at the time of the licence competition, said he was relieved when told by Mr Lowry that there was a "clear winner" from the competition.

Mr Pearse Farrell, of Farrell Grant Sparks accountants, said he had been accountant to Mr Desmond for many years. In May 1996 he was involved in describing Mr Desmond's assets to the Department. He wrote a letter showing Mr Desmond had assets worth £75 million. The letter did not deal with liabilities.

The capitalisation of IIU Ltd at the time was given as $20 million.

The tribunal resumes today with a new witness.