Lawyers for the Flood tribunal are investigating further allegations against politicians and officials following a lengthy interview with a former Dublin Fine Gael councillor, Mr Jim Fay.

Mr Fay told Mr John Gallagher SC, for the tribunal, that Mr Jim Kennedy, then owner of the Laurels pub in Clondalkin, Dublin, told him he was "bagman" for the former Dublin assistant city and county manager, Mr George Redmond. Mr Kennedy also said: "George will never be caught."

In three hours of recorded evidence, Mr Fay explained that Mr Kennedy had phoned him at his home in the mid-1980s after he had protested at a council meeting over plans to open a dump at Palmerstown. Mr Kennedy said he had bought the lands for the dump at Palmerstown for the county council.

Some time before Mr Fay had been contacted by a constituent to see whether the council would buy 37 acres near Dunsink dump in west Co Dublin. Two cattle belonging to the constituent, who has refused to comment on these matters to The Irish Times, had died on the land. An autopsy was performed on the second animal only and it established that death was due to haemorrhage in the lungs caused by warfarin, a blood-thinning agent also used as rat poison.

The council had refused to accept responsibility for the animals' death or to pay their owner any compensation. The constituent felt the council might be interested in buying the land for use in an extended Dunsink dump.

Mr Fay arranged a meeting between himself, the constituent and Mr Redmond to see whether the council was interested in buying the land. "I introduced him to J.R.," said Mr Fay. "Everybody knew George as J.R., after J.R. Ewing in Dallas," he said. "Southfork and all that."

Mr Redmond said: "I have enough land to do me [for dumping purposes] until the end of the century." But he agreed to would "talk" if it was agreed to sell the land at £5,000 an acre. This was flatly rejected. Mr Fay said that at that point he left the meeting. He saw no point in staying on.

Shortly afterwards at a council meeting "George shoved this piece of paper under my arm", Mr Fay said. Mr Fay was chairman of the council's Fingal area at the time and was chairing the meeting. The paper contained a proposal that the council approve a dump at Palmerstown.

Mr Redmond wanted the matter dealt with that day as it was "urgent". But Mr Fay said he had heard nothing about it before. He wanted to know when it had been discussed by the council. He would not deal with it that day.

He was annoyed. There were plans for a new dump at Palmerstown when Mr Redmond had already refused to extend the dump at nearby Dunsink. He put down a question for the following council meeting on the Palmerstown dump, querying its necessity and asking whose idea it was.

Early one morning before this second council meeting Mr Fay received a phone call from Mr Jim Kennedy, whom he had never met or been in contact with before. Mr Kennedy explained who he was and his relationship with Mr Redmond. "He said J.R. was very annoyed and that he [Kennedy] had purchased the land at Palmerstown for George."

Jim Fay then explained to Mr Kennedy what he felt was the anomalous position of the council refusing to extend an existing dump while planning a new one nearby with the inevitable fall-out that would lead to. He told Mr Kennedy about his constituent's attempts to sell lands to the council adjacent to Dunsink dump.

"Is that what all this is about?" asked Mr Kennedy. "Tell that man to come and see me." Mr Fay did so, believing he was doing his constituent a good turn. "I didn't think there was anything sinister so I gave him [constituent] the phone number and told him to get in contact [with Mr Kennedy]."

ONE Sunday afterwards he met his constituent as they were leaving Mass. "Any news?" he said. "Don't talk to me," replied his constituent, "they're like the Mafia. They stung me." He said no more then. Troubled by what he had heard that morning, Mr Fay went to his constituent's home that afternoon to find out what had happened.

The constituent said Mr Kennedy had introduced himself as "George's man" and advised that the first thing he [constituent] should do was to sack his auctioneer, Mr Barry Fitzgerald, in writing. He should then write to Mr Kennedy appointing him as his agent. He should also put £5,000 in an envelope, as much of it in sterling and used notes as possible, "to join the club". The constituent did as he was asked and paid over the £5,000 in cash.

Mr Fay was anxious lest the constituent might think he knew such a transaction was likely or that he would have "anything to do with that sort of carry-on." He urged his constituent to go to the Garda. He refused. He had other land he needed rezoned, he said. It was subsequently rezoned. Some of it was used as a base for the Lagan asphalt company which was involved in construction of the Lucan by-pass.

Contacted by The Irish Times, Mr Fay's constituent would not comment on any aspect of the story. "No comment", was his repeated reply before saying he would hang up. It is understood also he has been advised by a developer, who is a relative, not to co-operate with the tribunal.

Mr Fay also told tribunal lawyers he had levies of £36,000 on apartments he was building at Blanchardstown reduced to £6,000 when he agreed to pay £5,000 "expenses".

He had permission to build 24 apartments at a site in Blanchardstown but was levied £1,200 per apartment for services etc. He felt this was excessive and appealed to An Bord Pleanala. An engineer on the site told him the appeal "wouldn't travel." Mr Fay did not know how the engineer became aware of the appeal. He asked why it would not succeed.

The engineer said the appeal would be successful if he agreed to pay the council £7,000, and £4,000 "expenses". Mr Fay agreed to do so. The appeal succeeded about 10 days later when in fact the figures were adjusted so the "expenses" were increased to £5,000 and the levy amount was reduced to £6,000. The engineer said the matter had been sorted out by a named auctioneer who he said was close to a prominent Fianna Fail politician and had friends on An Bord Pleanala.

Mr Fay has told The Irish Times Mr Peter Loughran, who ran into opposition from Mr Redmond when he sought permission for an entrance to his Castleknock house, has refused to co-operate with the Flood tribunal. Mr Loughran, who sought Mr Fay's help in securing permission for the entrance, was the main witness in a later unsuccessful court action alleging corruption against an official in An Bord Pleanala.

Mr Redmond refused to accede to permission for the Loughran driveway despite the passing of a Section 4 motion by the county council, which obliges officials to carry out decisions.

Mr Loughran later got permission from An Bord Pleanala when it was found everything was in order. He testified at the corruption trial that prior to that he had paid a Bord Pleanala official £15,000 in Dublin's North Star Hotel to secure permission. Mr Loughran has refused to co-operate with the tribunal as its senior counsel, Mr Gallagher, was the county council's legal adviser at the time, and Mr Redmond's, in Mr Redmond's official capacity.