Taoiseach tells Bruton he did not ask Flynn about alleged payment

The Taoiseach has not raised the alleged payment of £50,000 to Mr Padraig Flynn during meetings with him.

This was revealed by Mr Ahern in reply to the Fine Gael leader, Mr John Bruton, who pointed out that the Taoiseach had several meetings with the EU Commissioner since the matter had come to knowledge. He asked if Mr Ahern had asked the Commissioner why he had not replied to the Fianna Fail general secretary's letter relating to the £50,000 and what had happened.

"No, I did not," replied Mr Ahern. "I did not raise any of these matters with Mr Flynn, because any of the meetings I had with Commissioner Flynn were on EU business and matters to do with Ireland. I was not in the business of following up . . . in seeking a reply from Mr Flynn."

He added that Mr Flynn's office had confirmed that he had received the letter and that the party's trustees wanted a reply.

Mr Bruton referred to an article in the Sunday Independent which first revealed that a £50,000 donation for Fianna Fail had been given to a former Fianna Fail minister. In the article, it was stated clearly that the party's national organiser, Mr Sean Sherwin, was made aware by the building contractor of the alleged contribution almost 10 years ago. The same claim was substantially repeated in another Sunday newspaper the following Sunday.

He asked if the Taoiseach had asked Mr Sherwin if this was true, and what the conclusions of his inquiries were.

Mr Ahern said that when articles had first appeared in newspapers, Mr Sherwin had come to the general secretary of the party and stated that "he had recollections of these matters" several years ago.

"The general secretary contacted me, and I immediately stated that what Mr Sherwin had to say should not be said to me but to the Fianna Fail legal team and that everything he had to say should be documented and sent to the tribunal. That was done forthwith."

Asked by Mr Bruton why he had asked Mr Sherwin not to say it to himself, the Taoiseach said he did not see it as his duty because an inquiry had been set up to deal with such matters. "I did see it as my duty to ensure that party officials, party members, or any members of the organisation, should co-operate fully with the tribunal."

Mr Bruton said as president of Fianna Fail Mr Ahern had discovered there was an allegation that £50,000 of the party's money had been "stolen" 10 years ago, and that a party official, still in the party's employment, knew about it at the time. Did the Taoiseach not want to do something about it rather than leave it to a tribunal?

Mr Ahern replied: "What I checked was, did we receive this money. We did not receive this money. Mr Sherwin had certain detailed comments to make about what Mr Gilmartin said when he came to the office many years earlier. I did not discuss one iota with Mr Sherwin. I thought it absolutely proper, as I have taken with other issues, that the legal team commissioned by us, and working for us, are taking every statement and dealing with every matter precisely."

He added that the tribunal had spent several hours interviewing Mr Sherwin last October. "I believe that was the proper action to take."

When Mr Bruton put it to him that some might say he was hiding behind the tribunal, Mr Ahern said what had been made were allegations which should be dealt with by the tribunal. He had acted on legal advice about the appropriate action for him to take as president of Fianna Fail.

The Labour leader, Mr Ruairi Quinn, said Mr Tom Gilmartin, in an interview with the Sligo Champion, had stated that those present at a meeting with him in September, 1989, were Mr Charles Haughey, Mr Brian Lenihan, Mr Liam Lawlor and Mr Ahern. Mr Quinn asked if the Taoiseach had discussed this with Mr Lawlor, who was quoted by Mr Gilmartin as introducing him to Mr Haughey.

Mr Ahern said Mr Lawlor (Fianna Fail TD for Dublin West) had no recollection of any such meeting which he was meant to have set up. Mr Lawlor, who was sitting on the Government back-benches, intervened to say: "The Taoiseach did ask me this morning and I, (a), never arranged a meeting, or, (b), was never in attendance at such a meeting."

Mr Quinn asked if the Taoiseach had discussed with Mr Lawlor the payments he was reported to have received from Arlington either as a political contribution or as a consultant. Mr Ahern said Mr Lawlor had already given details to the party and publicly.

Mr Trevor Sargent (Green Party, Dublin North) said people had a difficulty understanding how Mr Ahern did not know about certain donations to Fianna Fail, although officers of the party did.

Mr Ahern said Fianna Fail deputies would not have information about who subscribed to the party. He added that if Mr Gilmartin had said to him that he had given money to Mr Padraig Flynn, the party treasurer, it would not have registered with him. "I would have considered that was the appropriate thing for him to be doing. If he was giving a donation, he would have given it to our treasurer or to the finance committee. The Fianna Fail organisation is run that way."

Mr Quinn asked if the Taoiseach's attention had been drawn to claims made in the Sunday Times by a Dublin county councillor, Mr Colm McGrath, who was reported to have received substantial financial donations from the developers of the Quarryvale project, which was the successor to the original Gilmartin project. Had he spoken to Mr McGrath?

Mr Ahern said senior members of the party and officials had discussed the matter with Mr McGrath.