Ahern challenged on prisoners

There were heated exchanges between the Taoiseach and the Fine Gael leader on whether legislation was necessary to cover prisoner releases under the Belfast Agreement.

Mr Ahern said the Government had received advice from the Department of Justice and the Attorney General that the Offences Against the State Act of 1939 and the Criminal Justice Act of 1960 would cover temporary releases, capital cases and repatriated cases.

He said the issue had not yet come to Government and he had not yet decided on it. He was conscious of the wording of section four of the agreement and how people could interpret it.

Mr John Bruton said the legislation passed in 1960 was for entirely different circumstances. Presumably, the legal advice now available to the Government was also there when it was negotiating the agreement and when it committed itself to legislation.

In any event, Mr Bruton added, whether by legislation or motion or some other method, the precise grounds for distinguishing between those prisoners who would be released early, and those who would not, having committed the same offences with different organisational links, should be explicitly approved in the House.

It should be seen that matters involving human liberty were decided on the basis of clearly transparent rules, approved democratically, and not on the basis of administrative discretion by a Minister in a way that was not accountable, he said.

Mr Ahern agreed that anybody reading section four of the agreement would get the impression that both governments would introduce legislation. "The advice is strong that the powers are there in the legislation."

Mr Bruton: Is there some problem with introducing legislation?

Mr Ahern: No, Deputy Bruton, but you know, normally we do not introduce legislation when it is already on the statute book. We usually do not introduce legislation for fun. We usually do it for a reason.

Mr Bruton: We cannot have an accord for fun, either . . .

Mr Ahern: You seem to have a fundamental objection about all this.

Mr Bruton: The Taoiseach's comments are unworthy. As the Taoiseach knows, I have supported the agreement fully and supported him fully and given him credit for it fully.

The Fine Gael leader repeated it was important that matters concerning the liberty of individuals - keeping some people in jail and allowing others out - should be approved in the House. The Taoiseach knew when he had agreed in Belfast that legislation would be introduced, he added.

The fact that it was unnecessary did not mean it could not be done, and there were many instances of consolidating legislation which repeated existing provisions. "So there is no particular problem here in fulfilling this commitment, even if it does in some respects repeat the 1960 legislation. I would like to know why the Taoiseach is so angry about this."

Mr Ahern: I find it difficult when I bother to say that I will provide briefings and consultation, and when I go to do it, people use it to twist it around.

Mr Bruton said he had not asked for a briefing. The Taoiseach had suggested a briefing.

Mr Ahern said he was trying to deal with a situation where he was given advice on something that was legally underpinned by two pieces of legislation. He wanted to ensure that an agreement, to which he had signed his name, was properly introduced.

He had stated there were two legislative measures to deal with the issue. "I am anxious that we do it properly. That's all. I am not getting annoyed about it."

Earlier, the Labour leader, Mr Ruairi Quinn, said that on the basis of what he had been informed, as well as the party's own analysis, and notwithstanding that the law probably provided for prisoner release in its present format, there was a nett political point involved.

He believed the House and this Oireachtas was honour bound to introduce specific legislation to give full effect to the section of the agreement on prisoners. But Labour would await the full briefing and the correspondence from the Taoiseach.

The Democratic Left leader, Mr Proinsias De Rossa, said it seemed to him, on the basis of the agreement, that there was a need for legislation, even if it were only to confirm the State was complying with what it had agreed to.