Lawlor accuses developer of making 'wild' claims

Mahon Tribunal: Former Fianna Fáil TD Mr Liam Lawlor has denied that he took Mr Tom Gilmartin to a controversial claimed meeting with government ministers in Leinster House in February 1989.

Challenging Mr Gilmartin's evidence, Mr Lawlor accused the developer of lying and making "wild, wicked allegations" about the meeting. "This meeting never happened," he said.

According to Mr Lawlor, Mr Gilmartin's description of the route he took through Leinster House to the claimed meeting is contradictory and could be shown to be a fabrication when former minister Mrs Mary O'Rourke gives evidence next week.

Mr Gilmartin has told the tribunal he was subjected to a £5 million extortion demand immediately after the meeting with the then taoiseach, Mr Haughey, and seven Cabinet ministers.

He said Mr Lawlor brought him to the meeting and waited outside.

The politicians alleged to have been in attendance have denied the meeting took place or say they cannot recollect it, with the exception of Mrs O'Rourke.

Yesterday, Mr Lawlor, representing himself, said Mr Gilmartin would have gone in "two different directions" to get to the same meeting, according to his own directions.

He accused the witness of lying, adding: "You then decided to name all those people in your wild, wicked allegations".

Mr Gilmartin in turn accused Mr Lawlor of lying, adding: "I wasn't jailed for lying".

"Wait until we see the cheques you didn't discover. I was put in jail for less," Mr Lawlor responded.

Mr Lawlor said he never met the developer in Buswells Hotel on the day in question, as Mr Gilmartin had alleged.

The then minister for environment would have been a more appropriate person to introduce him to the taoiseach. In those days, he wasn't "on best terms" with Mr Haughey.

When the chairman came to physically check the description given by the witness as to how he arrived at the meeting, he would find they went in two directions, he said.

The room in which the meeting took place, according to Mr Gilmartin's description, corresponded to a Fianna Fáil room on the fifth floor of Leinster House. However, the description he gave of travelling to that room led to a different room on the first floor.

Mrs O'Rourke had told the tribunal that she came across the corridor from her office after being invited to the meeting by Mr Pádraig Flynn, Mr Lawlor said.

But Mrs O'Rourke, who was minister for education, did not have an office on the fifth floor of Leinster House at the time.

Mr Lawlor said it followed that if Mrs O'Rourke tells the tribunal next week that her office was on the first floor, Mr Gilmartin's description of meeting the ministers in a room on the fifth floor would be a "fabrication".

Later, after repeated angry exchanges between Mr Lawlor and the witness, the chairman warned the former TD that "firing abuse was not acceptable". Tribunal lawyers then read from guidelines on conduct at hearings, which prohibit the bullying of witnesses.

Mr Lawlor apologised, but expressed frustration that he had been waiting so long to question Mr Gilmartin but wasn't getting answers to straight questions.