Senior Garda officer disputes dramatic Charleton tribunal evidence

A senior Garda officer has disputed dramatic evidence given to the Charleton tribunal by the civilian human resources director at Garda HQ.

Earlier today, HR director John Barrett insisted he was told on May 13th, 2015 that the gardaí were going to “go after” Garda whistleblower Sgt Maurice McCabe at the O’Higgins Commission.

Mr Barrett said on Friday he had “absolutely no doubt that the comment was said to me and that it was said in advance” of the commission beginning its confidential proceedings in May 2015.

He told the tribunal he believed the comment was made to him by the former chief administrative officer at Garda HQ, Cyril Dunne, at the end of a meeting they had with then Garda Commission Nóirín O’Sullivan, on May 13th, 2015 and after Ms O’Sullivan had left the room.

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However Ms O’Sullivan’s diary was shown at the tribunal and records that she spent all of the day in question in London. She has already given evidence that she was in London on the day in question.

Mr Dunne, who has yet to give evidence to the tribunal, has said in a statement to it that he did not make the alleged comment to Mr Barrett.

On Thursday, Mr Barrett told the tribunal he took no record of the comment at the time but did believe he mentioned it to Chief Supt Tony McLoughlin when the commission was still sitting. The commission reported in May 2016.

He also said that Chief Supt McLoughlin had approached him recently and reminded him, the witness, that he had made this comment to him.

Just after lunch on Friday counsel for Garda HQ Conor Dignam SC, put it to the witness that a statement has been taken this morning from the Chief Supt which disputed Mr Barrett’s evidence on both points.

Chief Supt McLoughlin has said that his memory is that the comment was made to him by Mr Barrett late last year and not in 2015, and that it was mentioned again recently after Mr Barrett had approached him.

Mr Justice Peter Charleton said this conflicted with both points that Mr Barrett had made to the tribunal on Thursday. These were that the witness had a conversation with Chief Supt McLoughlin when the commission was still sitting, and that the Chief Supt had approached Mr Barrett recently and said he recalled the conversation.

“Now what is the truth?” the judge asked.

Mr Barrett said he accepted now that it was he who had approached the Chief Supt recently. “I hold firmly that there was a conversation during the currency of the” commission, he said. He said it was clear that the Chief Supt had no recollection of the conversation which he still held occurred in the weeks after May 2015.

It was still his evidence that he was told “in or around” May 13th, 2015 that the gardaí were “going after” Sgt McCabe.

Earlier Mr Dignam pointed out that all the evidence heard by the tribunal was that no decision had been taken about the approach that would be adopted towards Sgt McCabe at the commission hearings, until May 14th, 2015. Mr Barrett responded: “I’ve read that.”

The tribunal is investigating whether unjustified grounds were used at the confidential hearings of the commission, by Ms O’Sullivan, to discredit Sgt McCabe.

The tribunal has heard from a number of witnesses that Ms O’Sullivan gave her legal team at the commission approval to challenge the credibility and motivation of Sgt McCabe at the commission hearings, on the evening of May 14th, 2015.

The lawyers were representing Ms O’Sullivan and a number of senior officers against whom Sgt McCabe had made complaints which were later ruled to be unfounded. The legal team’s view that they needed to challenge Sgt McCabe’s motivation, was formed after consultations with these officers.

Mr Barrett first made his claim that he had been told in 2015 that the gardaí were going to “go after” Sgt McCabe in a statement he supplied to the tribunal in April of last year. However the statement did not include a date on which he believed the comment had been made.

Mr Barrett said he was at the tribunal for one reason only, and that was to tell the truth. “That comment was made,” he said.

The evidence continues.