Archbishop speaks of his hopes for church unity

The Church of Ireland Archbishop of Dublin, the Most Rev Walton Empey, has described Pope John XXIII as "by far the most outstanding Christian leader of the 20th century".

Interviewed for The Irish Soul in Dialogue, a book which will be published next week, he spoke of his "huge hope" for the eventual unity of the Church. "Everything I see on the ground [shows] a growing respect, co-operation and agreement. This consolidation of mutual respect is getting stronger and stronger," he said.

Referring to the Papacy, he said it had "a very special place" where Christian leadership throughout the world was concerned. He did not think it would raise the hackles of many Anglicans, "certainly not our theologians - to accept that he [the Pope] still could be the first Christian leader amongst equals, but not with all the baggage accumulated over the centuries,"

It would be "the realisation of an actual fact, that if you were not a Christian in this world you would know about the Pope and that he was the leader of the majority Church in Christendom.

"You would not think of one of the patriarchs of the Orthodox Church and, least of all, the Archbishop of Canterbury. We have got to acknowledge, and it has been actually mooted by theologians, that we would accept the Pope as a first among equals - not with power, infallible power, but as a very fine figurehead for the whole Church," he said.

On communion, he was asked whether he believed that the bread and wine were "actually trans-substantially changed into Christ's actual body or blood, or is it simply symbolic?"

The archbishop replied "No, it's in between. I don't think it's a question of either/or."

"Transubstantiation was a philosophic approach to that. We approach it as a great mystery in which Christ is truly present . . . if it were pure symbolism, I would not be an Anglican priest. To me, Christ subsists there. How he subsists there I haven't a clue and the Church does not claim to know."

In communion "we are confronted with a huge mystery and I simply receive what Christ says: 'This is my body, this is my blood'. I cannot accept a definition of that. I approach it as a wonderful, wonderful mystery, in which Christ Himself has chosen to share His divine life with us."

Dealing with the differing views of Christianity within his own church on the island of Ireland, he felt that "certainly in the North of Ireland, the evangelical (more Protestant fundamentalist) wing would be to the forefront. I suspect in the Republic it would be more the liberal tradition and I would be at the Catholic end of that liberal tradition. I hate these labels, but if you can put labels in, that would be a very rough guide."

He said some of his friends in the North would be shocked to hear that. Increasingly however, the evangelical wing there was getting stronger and stronger. "There would be a more relaxed, liberal attitude here in the Republic, but that's a broad generalisation."