The Frontline and – oh vey! – Tommy Tiernan
Jim Carroll
RTE’s new current affairs session The Frontline enjoyed a good start to its run last night. Sure, there were a couple of opening night niggles – they need to make the type on the info-ticker a lot bolder, Pat Kenny seemed a little hurried and harrassed as if he was trying to cram a two hour show into an hour and, wow, so that’s what Eamon Dunphy looks like without the services of the RTE make-up department – but these are ones which can be sorted out with time. Well, maybe not the latter.
More importantly, the format, and how it served last night’s Nama subject matter, hit the nail on the head. Remember that The Frontline is replacing Questons & Answers so the most important thing for the new show is to get away from bland, set-piece questions from the audience and even blander set-piece answers from the panel. Instead of that hoary formula (which did serve Q&A well for a few years before it became the show’s downfall), we had Kenny wandering around the audience with his microphone and getting views and tales from what was going on in, as Fintan O’Toole later termed it, “the real economy”. It helped too that there didn’t seem to be as many party goons in the audience, though you had to admire the dude who used the opportunity to hawk a few houses in the midlands. Oh, and can someone please find an alternative use for Tom Parlon?
Interestingly, the weakest link in the show was Kenny’s interview with Brian Lenihan. The Minister for Finance wiggled like a worm on the end of a fishing line and managed to escape relatively unscathed from the encounter. Sure, he wouldn’t have been so lucky in an one-on-one with, say Vinny Browne, but it’s also doubtful if Kenny would have been so lax on his radio show or if Browne would have been as thorough if he’d to keep a live studio audience engaged. Again, chalk it down to the opening night test-run. By the time The Frontline is a dozen shows into its run, government ministers might think twice about coming on the show.
We’re unlikely, though, to see the unfunniest man in Ireland on the show and thank goodness for that. Yet again, he finds himself in the soup and, once again, he is probably laughing away to beat the band at the crack he has created.
We speak, of course, of Tommy Tiernan, a comedian who has enjoyed huge success in Ireland by taking on the persona of that mad, loud, drunken gobshite in a woolly jumper that you cross the street to avoid. Thousands of Irish people, though, obviously don’t feel the same way and they have spent good money to sit through a few hours of Tiernan ranting, roaring and cursing at them. You keep hoping that he’s going to get some success elsewhere so he can go away and annoy other people, but then you realise that Tiernan is never going to do that. He’s as parochial as the parish pump.
Yet again, Tiernan is in what he sees as his natural home (ie the limelight) after cracking a few Holocaust gags during a public interview at the recent Electric Picnic. Note, this wasn’t part of his actual show in the comedy teepee, this was a public interview so Tiernan’s high-faluting cant about specially-protected comedy environments does not apply. Naturally, because it’s Ireland and it’s Tiernan, the audience laughed their socks off. Tiernan, he’s such a hoot. He’s a mad bastard, a mad fecking bastard. Yahoo!
Since the Trib ran the story on Sunday (and fair play to Ken Sweeney for digging it up), there has been a lot of fuming. This happens a lot with Tiernan so you could say that it has become his shtick: take a dig at some controversial subject and then sit back to wait for the reaction. We’ve been here before with Tiernan with his Madeline McCann and crucifixion gags, to name just two which kept Liveline in clover for days.
But eventually folks will tire of the eejit who shouted “feck!” and will move along. Yes, there is such a thing as edgy comedy and some comedians are absolutely fantastic at juggling controversial subjects to the consternation and discomfort of their audience. But not Tiernan. When he takes on an edgy subject, all you get are the rants and raves of a very unfunny and increasingly deluded individual. It’s about time we sighed and moved on. Bet Pat Kenny is glad he doesn’t have to invite Tiernan onto his TV show ever again.
Adam@47 – ”As an aside, do people really think David O’Doherty is funny?? I find that harder to believe than anything else here”
Very overrated comedian, don’t get all that ‘quirky’ keyboard stuff he does. There are a lot of Irish ‘comedians’ I just don’t find funny at all…Tiernan, Neil Delamere, David Maxwell, Des Bishop and the excrutiatingly awful Jason Byrne. There’s nothing worse than seeing them all smugly sitting together on The Panel with the their pre-prepared quips and gags. Dara O’ Briain and Ardal O’Hanlon are the best we have, genuinely funny and clever but also likeable.
nerraw @ 50 – i hope that whinge isn’t related to the fact that a rival Sunday paper got the story
Oh and for the record, Bren Berry is officially the funniest man in Ireland. I hope he will now print this out and use it on the back of his business card.
Peter@48′…but he’ll probably never get the boggers on his side like Tiernan does’
WTF? What a strange comment. So that’s why he’s so popular – the boggers like him! Like a comedy version of The Stunning. As a ‘bogger’ myself, I can’t stand the guy – why would his humour appeal to me because I’m from the country? Is there some sort of rural/urban divide now when it comes to what people find funny? Humour is subjective -it’s not about what part of the country you’re from.
Oi Peter81, I hate that shit that only ‘boggers’ like Tommy Tiernan or whoever.
Is David O’Doherty considered erudite, witty and urbane coz he has a wanky accent?
I’d imagine his humour would sit well with these ‘boggers’ you speak of (I’m presuming you’re using the term in the pejorative sense?) since it revolves around a toy keyboard, inane songs and stories about penguins.
D.O.I. I’m a bogger
Quint @ 53 to Peter @ 48 – perfect retort. No need to add anything. Well, bar if boggers are supposed to like Tiernan, does this mean that sophisticated metropolitan types like himself are all Aslan and Brendan O’Carroll fans?
haha. Not at all Jim. lol I’m currently in holidays in Japan, which explains terrible grammer, mostly, sipping a beer so free of the burden of work. I just don’t get comedian x offended me. And who’s to judge when a comedian crosses the line? A mass walk out, yes, but not a news reporter. Unless its McSavage
nerraw – you’re on hols AND reading the blog? Dude, we salute you with sake. Have a good one.
“WTF? What a strange comment. So that’s why he’s so popular – the boggers like him!”
Yes. He appeals to a huge chunk of the population where other comedians like DO’D rely on (or resort to) being a bit more exclusive in their humour. They’re not bogger-friendly.
Peter81 – so, let me get this right. you’re implying that boggers dont like DO’D?
Hold on, hold on, I think I have rumbled this. You are DAVE McSAVAGE. You are, aren’t you?
Aside from whether Tiernan is funny or not anymore, is the shear number of comments on this blog post not evidence enough that Tommy saying something offencive is a nice and handy way to engage readers? It happened at EP, chill out people, there hasn’t been an incredible surge in Naziism since EP has there? Nor had there been after x amount of South park episodes that come up with increasingly inventive ways of being Antisemetic, or Borat or the millions of other comedians/comedy programmes that resorted to using a Jew gag.
Saw Dave MacSavage on t he street on Sunday doing his thing, it wasn’t really funny, as in it didn’t seem like a real professional at work, and even worse were the the ways in which he tried to gode people into buying his DVD. “All proceeds go to my two retarded daughters” being one example.
They’re onto me, I better cut to a song…
Before I incite a riot of the b(l)oggers here today, let me just say I’m a Tipp man myself and I know the audience. If you gave Tommy Tiernan a mic in a GAA club in Clonmel for an hour he would go down well. I don’t think you could say the same for D’OD. However if you put O’Doherty in Whelans for an hour he might even do better than Tommy T. It’s that kind of humour.
Peter81 My Dad’s from Clonmel.You too? I used to go to hurling training at home in Galway when I was a youngster in full Tipp colours. Dicing with death. And you’re right about the Whelans thing. DOD would be ‘culturally relevant’ there. Prob be a ‘comedy bro’.
Peter81 – feel free to throw Killinaskully into the mix and shout ‘checkmate’
http://www.rte.ie/arts/2008/1230/rte.html
http://www.rte.ie/arts/2007/1231/rte.html
Wild generalisations time: We Irish aren’t funny, we just think we are. The Brits absolutely cane us when it comes to stand-up, sit-coms and satire.
We Irish also don’t have the wonderful sense of humour we think we do, we just laugh at the loudest, obnoxious coconut in the room… and heaven help the Jonny Foreigner who dares slag us off.
But we’re funnier than the whole of continental Europe put together.
Maybe Tommy Tiernan will be the first person to be charged under the new blasphemy legislation?
Surely the funniest person in Ireland at the moment is Mary Coughlan. Her comment about Einstein developing the theory of evolution at the launch of smart technology initiative was the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time. The scariest person in the world is strangely enough Mary Coughlan. Technically shes in charge today. We’d better watch ourselves.
The church have weighed into the debate – way hey!! It really is like Father Ted now.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0923/1224255064144.html?via=mr
I think we have to separate the ‘Tommy Tiernan is shite’ argument from the ‘Tommy Tiernan is an anti-semite’ argument, because they seem to be getting muddled.
If you think Tommy Tiernan is shit, fair enough. If you think he’s good, fair enough. I haven’t seen enough of him over the years to have an opinion myself. He’s off my radar and he doesn’t bother me. As for the accusations of anti-semitism, until we see a full transcript of the WHOLE converstion/performance from the EP then I don’t think anyone can make a judgement. Why do you think the Tribune printed this a couple of weeks after the event? I read that article myself on the Sunday it was printed and my first reaction was – “slow news day, shit stirring”.
Noise – I think we have to separate the ‘Tommy Tiernan is shite’ argument from the ‘Tommy Tiernan is an anti-semite’ argument, because they seem to be getting muddled.
see comment 45 above.
if boggers are supposed to like Tiernan, does this mean that sophisticated metropolitan types like himself are all Aslan and Brendan O’Carroll fans?
How we got to talking about the unfunniest man in Ireland and went this long without mentioning that charlatan is beyond me.
“How’s your gibbly wibbet?” + cross dressing + cackle = numerous ‘comedy’ DVDs
Maybe Tommy Tiernan will be the first person to be charged under the new blasphemy legislation?
Una, it would be a terrific challenge for a well dodgy law. I’d love to see TT in court defending his act on the basis of its “genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value”. Even if he were to lose, I’m sure he could afford the fine.
@37 Eh, I know SBC is Jewish. My point stands though. I meant that it is a very weak point to make a generalization about something as huge and nebulous as ‘Jewish humour’ by drawing all three of your examples from one person. Hardly the stuff of sound arguments.
Jim, the Trib article was a typically low piece of tabloid journalism. An example of just taking something out of context and stirring shit. Tiernan was attempting to make a point. You on the other hand obviously don’t like the man and would prefer to play him rather than the ball. At least make an attempt to tackle the issue in an intelligent manner without letting your subjectivity cloud your judgement.
Maybe you should just stick to baiting Radiohead fans.
Oh, and Una, Tubridy is “smart”, but smart is one thing. Having intellectual credentials is another, “dude.” Anyway, with a bit of luck bigging him up like that might get you a panel gig on the Late Late.
Dave – sorry dude, you’re missing the point. See comment 45 above. This is about the big picture – Tommy Tiernan, not as good as he used to be and how the current kerfuffle just reinforces that.
If we can keep up on the outrage, Tommy might yet appear on next week’s Frontline…
Jim – sorry, I didn’t think the point being made by Diarmuid Martin and all the other knee jerk reactionists was that Tommy Tiernan isn’t as good as he used to be. And sure enough this whole thing does amplify how bad he’s gotten in the past few years, but really the “big picture” isn’t about that. It’s about whether an admittedly past his sell by date comic can say what he likes once he gives a context for it.
And yeah, s’pose I am pretty handy with the aul flat barbs.
Dave – we’re obviously dealing with 2 different big pictures. My one is outlined in comment 45 and your one is outlined at 74 and 71. And, while I think there is room for both, the one I started out with – ie Tommy Tiernan is rubbish – is the one I’ll stick with here.
I comepletely agree with you Jim. Tiernan has been doing this kind of thing for years now. Frankly, I never found it funny, nor particularly offensive either. I just found it stupid. I suppose we can infer from Tiernan’s holocaust remarks that there’s a DVD release coming up soon…
I don’t know whether Tiernan is or is not anti-Semitic. But I strongly believe that his comments are the most offensive and hurtful that anyone could have made about the Holocaust. Recall that he told Hot press the the following:
“But these Jews, these f***ing Jews come up to me. These f***ing Christ killing bastards. F***ing six million? I would have got 10 or 12 million out of that. No f***ing problem. Two at a time they would have gone. Hold hands, get in there, leave us your teeth and your glasses.”
If he thinks this is comical, then the men in the white coats should be sent for immediately.
The problem is that he – and those brainless idiots who laughed at his comments – has now shamed all of us in Ireland, and give us all the reputation abroad as being a people who mock and joke about the Holocaust.
I look forward to seeing how he will be received on his upcoming tour of the USA in 3 weeks time. I predict that either it will be cancelled, or if it does take place that he will be subject to a lot of bad publicity, and well earned. So, if not an antisemite, then he’s either a bloody idiot or just plain bonkers.
“The problem is that he – and those brainless idiots who laughed at his comments – has now shamed all of us in Ireland, and give us all the reputation abroad as being a people who mock and joke about the Holocaust”
Amen sister. Im literally drowning in my own ignominy. And maybe it would be better for the rest of the world if I just stop fighting, let my lungs fill with shame and take my rightful place in hell for daring to be even on the same land mass as this comedy Hitler. I just couldnt face the Belgians after this. Just knowing they know is causing my ass to weep the ancient brown remorse of Cooley all over my passport.
He was good in that episode of Father Ted where he played a depressed priest. Apart from that he can fuck off.
Good column from David Adams today about Tiernan and his ranting ways touching on some of the things people have commented about above:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0924/1224255125020.html
Regardless of whether Tiernan is any good or whether he’s a raving attention-seeking celebrity, I am still waiting to see someone publish a full transcript of the conversation/interview (or whatever it was) that took place at the Electric Picnic to make a proper judgement about the whole situation. Where is it?
To me, this reminds me so much of those occurences in the past when people (usually the church and other self-appointed moral guardians) have denounced various films, publications etc without having established the most basic connection with the material concerned.
rabble rabble rabble!
grrr!
my opinion matters!
rabble rabble!
far more important things in the world that what Tommy Tiernan said over 2 weeks ago.
worth mentioning that during today’s festivities for that stout that we should think of all the Johnny Walker workers who Diageo have decided to fire because they want to move the Walker factory out of Kilmarnock, all those million spent for today’s party could have kept Johnny Walker in Kilmarnock and kept 700 jobs.
Right, so David Adams is angry about Tiernan, but again the article is inspired by subjective hatred rather than logical reasoning. We all know Tommy Tiernan was looking for publicity, we all know he’s deteriorated as a comedian (the wife and I sat stony faced through his DVD Cracked, and that was a long time ago – awful stuff). What we need is a commentator who can sit down and go through the whole thing with a degree of real analysis and objectivity.
Adams piece is a thinly disguised rant, nothing more than that. Come on, people. Stop being juvenile, and get to grips with the subject.
The piece is just another example of the dumbing down of Irish Times opinion. Wheel out Fintan. There’s a man who can give a good kicking without resorting to flimsy half baked personal opinion.
It was — the rant — prompted by an audience’s member’s question: “have you ever been accused of being anti-Semite?” Oh the irony… or not.
It’s on his website: https://www.tommytiernan.com/podcasts/ — it’s right in the last couple of minutes.
If you listen you can see the context in which he made the above comments. He kinda of gets muddled telling a story, starts to lose his thread and ends up doing the “ironic” and in my opinion not funny rant by way of saying “fuck this — yes yes I am an anti-Semite.”
He was trying to be funny. He failed in lots of people’s opinions. He also offended thousands more when his comments were aired or printed,
But Tiernan didn’t cause offense intentionally though… um… he did say something offensive deliberately — albeit with a mad rush of blood to the head (comedian’s are by nature over excitable and constantly sticking their feet in their mouths).
So enough with the conspiracy “he must be releasing a DVD next week” theories. Or even the “he must be trying to prop up his career”-angle as suggested by David Adams. If you listen to the podcast you can see it’s not premeditated unless people are suggesting he planted the question maker in the crowd.
Kitty Holland wrote a brilliant, cutting write-up about Tiernan’s wedding in the Times a few months ago: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0810/1224252314427.html
Ó hEochagáin wore a matching sense of importance -
What a great line.
@P&M
That was neither cutting nor brilliant, just bitchy.
You know, I dont think its really fair for music lovers to comment on comedians. As a music lover, one of the great things about an album, song you love is that you can listen to it again and again, and often, if its good, it gets better with the listening.
Comedy on the other hand, tends to devalue and always has to be fresh. A comedian cannot really get away with telling the same joke twice, so there is possibly more pressure on comedians to be creative and to keep seeking out new audiences, than for musicians, who can always fall back on performance if they are suffering from any kind of writers block.
I dont think TV particularly likes Tommy Tiernan, his energy seems to work better live. Though it is a few years now since I saw him. Ok sometimes he is controversial for the sake of it, but then again so many others today are too. Remember there used to be one controversial bitchy journalist at every newspaper, who you guiltily laughed at, but now its hard to find someone humble enough not to go that way.
Just another perspective.
“You know, I dont think its really fair for music lovers to comment on comedians”
Me too. I don’t think it’s really fair for music lovers to comment either on politicians or schol-teachers or doctors or solicitors or farmers or clothes-shop asistants or charity workers or drunks.
What a fucking ridiculous comment. That’s as stupid as Tiernan himself.
I thought the David Adams piece was a bit crass. Some of it was barmy.
Barmy indeed. A lot of it didn’t make any sense.
@88 Agreed. What a silly thing to say.
@86 I kinda like Tommy Tiernan, so may be I am as ‘stupid’ as him. But I do get a bit bored when I hear the same joke more than once. As a music lover, I love listening to the same song/album again and again and again. Music can appreciate with time (sometimes) whereas jokes get stale very quickly. I feel there is a lot of pressure on all comedians to reinvent themselves with every performance.
That was the point I was trying to make. Its only an opinion.
So forgive my choice of words. It seems like its not just Tommy Tiernan who embarrasses himself and puts his foot in it.
I have tried to analyse all this further.
Some commentators are now claiming that Tiernan was merely taking the mickey out of a rabid anti-semite, that it was the anti-semite who was his target and not Jews. If you read his website “apology” you will not see any mention of this from him. If he had explicitly said this either in his preamble before the rant, or on his website then these commentators would of course have a point.
Nevertheless, for the sake of argument let us accept that this was his true intention. Even on this presumtion the point is that he has layed into the Jewish couple who approached him over whether he was anti-semitic re his calling “the Jews ” as a people Christ killers. This latter accusation is one that has been levelled by anti-semites at “the Jews” thoughout their history, forgetting that Jesus was himself a Jew, as well as his followers. His riposte that it wsn’t “the fuckin Mexicans” is funny, but it also wasn’t “the Jews”. His perpetuation of the Christ-killing Jews is what constitutes the main anti-semitic element PRIOR TO his joking about the Holocaust.
If it is “context” that is his defence then, if the rant on the Holocaust is seen in context with his preceding anti-semitic comments about the Jew Christ killers, then this may indicate a consistency in the flow of the anti-semitic theme, and one would have to wonder whether this was indeed intended to be an attack on Jews. Recall also that he has previously attacked Israel, and never Palestinians, or Moslems.
Thus under the cover of comedy Tiernan has laid into Jews for Christ killing, made jokes at the expense of Israelis, and then tops it off by joking that 10 12 million Jews should have been gassed. There appears to be an anti-jewsih trend throughout these jokes, whether intentional or not.
In stark contrast there is the fact that Tiernan has not made jokes about Moslems or the Palestinians. And for this omission you have to wonder: why not?