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  • irishtimes.com - Posted: August 18, 2009 @ 9:42 am

    Prediction: 2fm will be in an even bigger mess in five years time

    Jim Carroll

    You have to really admire the folks at 2fm’s sense of timing. No, really, you have to. Yesterday’s schedule changes and last week’s news that John Clarke is finally quitting come just ahead of the latest JNLR book which will probably reveal even more slippage in their audience numbers. Of course, 2fm now have valid excuses to bat this audience drop away with the line that they’ve had a review, have begun a process and are now chasing a whole new audience.

    That line, though, is a load of stinking horse manure.

    2fm’s decline didn’t begin over the last couple of years. As someone who has written again and again about this, I can tell you that this is a malaise which had set in by 2001. Back then, the station was content to point to great JNLR figures and high advertising revenue to offset the fact that it’s daytime offerings were poor and that the tide was out. Sure, they’d a host of young guns around the place – 2fm had their summer of love a few decades late to provide berths for John Power, Mr Spring, Mark McCabe and Wes “R&B” D’Arcy – but all of these new talents were stuck with graveyard shifts. No chance of a daytime run for any of those boyos when you could have Gerry Ryan and Gareth O’Callaghan comingatcha.

    This, sadly, has continued to be the case. In 2003, for example, station boss John Clarke went on an indie rock-jock shopping spree and came back from the shops with a pint of milk, a loaf of bread, Dan Hegarty, Jenny Huston and Cormac Battle. All three indie DJs are still with the station, but all three had about as much chance of getting a weekday prime slot from Clarke as I have of togging out for Tipp on September 6.

    Then, there’s the indigestion at breakfast time. For the last decade or so, 2fm’s main rivals Today FM have had one man at the helm. Ian Dempsey is the king of bright, breezy, on-the-button breakfast radio because he’s damn good at his gig. During this time, 2fm have tried out (deep breath) Ryan Tubridy, Rick & Ruth, Marty “Bell Eleven” Whelan and, finally, Colm Hayes and Jim-Jim Nugent in an attempt to compete with Iano. See what I mean? That’s four very different combos in the space of a decade. 2fm at breakfast has long been a case of trying something out for size, not giving the presenters time to bed down or develop and then running scared to the next possible solution. In the end, they settled the problem by buying in the FM104 breakfast team. Remember that the saying in radio is “win breakfast and win the day”. When your breakfast show is not bringing in the numbers, you’re already at a disadvantage.

    All of the above and much more has contributed to a decade-long identity crisis at 2fm. But the biggest problem of all now is that the proposed changes – and new boss – will probably not be enough to save the station.

    For the record, the station is now planning to go after a different audience. Finally admitting that they can’t compete for listeners with the Spins, Reds, Beats and Is of the land, they’re abandoning the teenage demographic and are now chasing the 25-44 age group. That, dear readers, is you, you, you in the Smiths t-shirt, you with the fake tan from the weekend, you, you with the glasses, you, you reading the Metro and you over there trying to grab 40 winks. You, dear OTR readers, are the new 2fm target audience. Yeah, I can hear you laughing. Would you listen to 2fm? Thought not.

    Repositioning a station takes more than issuing a press release at the height of the silly season about that plan. Repositioning a failing station takes brains and balls, commodities which have been in short supply at 2fm for the last decade. Repositioning a dull, dying station which has been rudderless and leader-less for years takes more than deciding on the back of some “review” to try to have a bit of that Today FM appeal. And, unfortunately, repositioning an anachronism like 2fm will take more than the spin RTE can throw at it. Here are three problems which come to mind straight away.

    Problem number one: the new John Clarke will be recruited from within. This, per this morning’s news report, is down to the broadcaster’s financial position. Of course, there are people in Montrose who would be brilliant at this gig. There are probably even people in Montrose who would wield the knife and get rid of the elephants in the room who need to be removed. But if 2fm is serious about changing its clothes, it needs a whole new energy and that can only come from outside the institution. It can’t be a case of meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

    Problem number two: here’s your schedule, new boss, work with it. A part of me died a little when I saw Dave Fanning back on the 2fm cards with an one hour chat show . It didn’t work on RTE Radio One as Drivetime With Dave so it sure as hell won’t work on 2fm. Fanning has fantastic strengths as a broadcaster, but he needs a really strong, focused team around him to him on track. For instance, he sat in for Ryan Tubridy over the summer and that show was as tight as a drum because the Tubridy Show team were on hand to stop any meandering by the host in the bud. Will Fanning on 2fm have a team who are prepared to do that, especially at a time when Paul McLoone is hoovering up listeners over on 100 to 102 FM because he’s just playing fantastic music? Do we really want to listen to a chat show at the end of the day? And what’s wrong with making Fanning do what Fanning used to be good at and playing some damn music?

    Problem number three: is there anyone actually listening? As several commentators here over the last few days have pointed out, radio audiences are dwindling. People are not going to tune into the wireless when they can go to Last FM or Spofity and hear exactly what they want to hear when they want to hear it. Every radio station is suffering from this at the moment and no amount of tinkering with playlists or formats is going to change that. If you don’t already have an audience who’ve grown up with you and your presenters, it’s going to be even harder to persuade them to switch over. With 2fm now accepting that The Kids don’t want them, how the hell do you expect the generation you’ve already abandoned because you wanted to chase The Kids to come round to you again?

    It’s a long bloody list and one which will provide plenty of sleepless nights for Michael Cahill (the obvious new John Clarke) or Mark McCabe (a potentially interesting new John Clarke) or Ian Wilson (the really smart, dangerous, unpredictable and sadly unlikely new John Clarke) or John McMahon (an interesting bet for the new John Clarke job who would be thankfully anything but the new John Clarke) when they take possession of the keys to the executive washroom. If 2fm is still around in its current guise and is holding its own in five years time, hats off to the new man or woman. If it’s not and if it’s still the subject of pieces like this, please remember that the rot set in a long, long time ago and on another Head Of 2fm’s watch.

  • 89 Comments

    1.
    August 18, 2009
    9:58 am

    There are probably even people in Montrose who would wield the knife and get rid of the elephants in the room who need to be removed.

    If the new boss has the cajones to cut Mr G Ryan there’s definitely a possibility of a new DJ stealing some of Ray D’Arcy’s audience. What was once refreshing and slightly irreverent quickly grew stale – most people I know who listen to D’Arcy agree that the show jumped the shark years ago. Since he became a Dad Ray has turned from a guy you’d go for a pint with to a middle class G Ryan, outraged at everything and hosting the rose of bloody Tralee. Listeners don’t identify with him as much anymore, and while Tom Dunne is likable on Newstalk but suffers the same problem as the one you pointed out for Dave Fanning – he doesn’t play enough music.

    I think if 2 fm won over D’Arcy’s listeners, possibly with Rick O’Shea, who I thought did a good job standing in for G Ryan, they could be onto a winner.

    Comment by Joe
    2.
    August 18, 2009
    10:07 am

    Joe – I couldn’t see any new appointment from within doing that. It’s obvious and it’s what has to be done but 2fm will point to the fact that G Ryan is a cash-cow, has X amount of listeners and that the target audience love him. Which makes you wonder, if 2fm were going after a young audience for the last decade, where did G Ryan fit in there?

    And I’m sure we’ll also hear that old “we need a radio station between Radio One and 2fm” nonsense too. It’s nonsense. Have the balls to deal with what you have please

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    3.
    August 18, 2009
    10:09 am

    rte should just sell off 2fm and rte2 tv and let commercially minded people get on with what they’re good at and leave rte 1 tv and radio 1 stick to current affairs/docs/sport/etc

    there’s been some great history programmes on rte in recent weeks and their footie coverage/panel is the best i’ve yet seen

    if they get rid of the ‘pop’ channels and use the licence fee for more interesting stuff rather than paying for gerry ryan\s bloated, er, everything then we’d all be better off

    Comment by robert e. lee
    4.
    August 18, 2009
    10:14 am

    “With 2fm now accepting that The Kids don’t want them, how the hell do you expect the generation you’ve already abandoned because you wanted to chase The Kids to come round to you again?”

    Bang on the money. This is the problem – they’ve spent years saying they’re a pop station and now, they’re going to do a turnaround and be Today-Tomorrow FM? They don’t really think the audience is that stupid, that DJs who’ve been playing the kind of shite 2fm plays are suddenly going to turn credible overnight? Total and utter nonsense. I couldn’t even tell you where 2fm are on the dial because I haven’t listened to them in over 10 years and that ain’t going to change

    Comment by John The Farmer
    5.
    August 18, 2009
    10:22 am

    Robert, 2FM is not funded by the license fee.

    Comment by Sean Prendergast
    6.
    August 18, 2009
    10:26 am

    Agree on Paul McLoone and Fanning, though I don’t know if there’s any point in Fanning going back to playing music – obviously he still cares about it, and a whole generation of culshies (like myself) grew up with him as our tastemaker, but PMcL is in his natural slot and I’d be surprised if there’s enough of an audience in the country to support 2 simultaneous shows of that ilk

    Comment by Cormac-out-of-Stoat
    7.
    August 18, 2009
    10:33 am

    Robert, 2FM is not funded by the license fee.

    Sean – with ad revenue falling, I’m sure there will be some cross-subsidisation to come.

    Cormac – totally right. PMcL owns that 7pm slot and, more importantly and unlike his predecessor in the slot (and indeed Fanning), his ENTHUSIASM for what he is playing comes across every single night

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    8.
    August 18, 2009
    10:34 am

    Jim, I agree that 2FM is not relevant to anyone at the moment but Today FM is slipping too. Ray D’arcys and Ian Dempseys shows are loosing the freshness they once had – I think Ray just waits for the first stupid text to come and discuss this for half the show… Don’t get me started on Tony “play the same tracks” Fenton

    On the other hand, the last word and the McLoone show are quality.

    Comment by Mar
    9.
    August 18, 2009
    10:37 am

    Mar – You’ll note that I only talked about Today FM at the start and end of the day!

    As for “I think Ray just waits for the first stupid text to come and discuss this for half the show…”, sure I thought that’s the way that show has always been.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    10.
    August 18, 2009
    10:40 am

    Ian Wilson would be a great choice. Wasn’t he involved in a lot of the Fanning Sessions and he seems to be behind a lot of the live Oxegen/EP broadcasts??

    Mark Mc Cabe. He may have the initiative but I still can’t get past “Maniac”.

    I only heard Colm and Jim Jim (“Ireland’s answer to Adam & Joe”) the other day for the first time. They were cat as we say in Galway. I have to agree that it all comes down to letting Gerry Ryan go to Radio 1 or some other radio limbo.

    Comment by overfriendlyconcierge
    11.
    August 18, 2009
    10:46 am

    overfriendly – Yep, that’s Ian Wilson – a senior producer out there who has been behind the 2fm sessions, live broadcasts from various fests, the station’s involvement in Eurosonic etc etc etc. He would be a brilliant choice, if he went for it and got the gig

    mark McCabe looks after a lot of RTE’s digital output and he’s done great stuff with no-budget with 2XM and Pulse etc. “Maniac” was a long, long time ago. He did it for the money.

    “Ireland’s answer to Adam & Joe” – what, Adam Ant and Joe Dolce?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    12.
    August 18, 2009
    10:53 am

    Couldn’t agree more re last fm and spotidy, why bother listen to the radio and put up with ads when you can select what you want? My Ipod does get interrupted by WOW HARVEY NORMAN WOW 20 times a day or Phantom mentioning their bloody music quiz every 5 seconds.

    Even in the car these days I’d rather hook up my iPod rather than listen to the radio, the only exception being in the evenings when I will tune into Paul McCone if I am driving.

    Colm and Jim Jim is the worst radio show I’ve ever heard. Can’t stand it. Unfortunately for me I have to put up with in the mornings if I want a lift to work of the other half!

    Comment by JC
    13.
    August 18, 2009
    10:55 am

    What’s really interesting here is that OTR readers are the very people The New 2fm want to tune into their station – they can’t turn around and say “oh those OTR snobs, we don’t want them”. If you’re going after an older, non-teen demographic who are into their music, you need the tens of thousands who read OTR every day. But I think it’s safe to assume that this is not going to happen for a variety of reasons, not least the historical way we look at 2fm as McSmashey & O’Nicey FM. Fun times ahead y’all.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    14.
    August 18, 2009
    10:59 am

    “A part of me died a little when I saw Dave Fanning back on the 2fm cards with an one hour chat show .”

    No offense, buddy, but it sounds like you need a holiday.

    2FM seems to coast on the knowledge that a lot of people just don’t change the radio station

    Comment by Stevie Eire
    15.
    August 18, 2009
    10:59 am

    Today FM currently have Paul McLoone, Allison Curtis and Donal Dineen on in succession in the evening. In terms of alternative-ish music there’s no way 2FM can compete with that lineup.

    On the other hand plenty (most?) of 25-44 year-olds probably prefer mainstream U2\Coldplay type stuff – maybe they should just go with a more middle-of-the-road approach (or would that just see them getting hammered by the local stations instead)

    Comment by LiamK
    16.
    August 18, 2009
    11:04 am

    Don’t get me started on Tony “play the same tracks” Fenton

    Myself and my mates were figuring out ‘The Tony Fenton Playlist’

    It’s

    Bruce
    Snow Patrol
    Arcade Fire
    U2
    Duffy
    A Motown track (Usually ‘Respect’)
    Token current chart hit.

    Comment by Joe
    17.
    August 18, 2009
    11:09 am

    Stevie – er, thanks, I’ll book one right away

    LiamK – the problem is daytime and credibility. Will you really buy into Gerry Ryan, Colm Hayes, Jim-Jim-Jim-Jim-Jim-Jim and Nikki hayes suddenly becoming all about the music? Even a Frank Zappa fan like G Ryan? And what about the fact that the station cut down on the features and banter between the tunes earlier in the year? Isn’t this something that the new target audience will respond to? Will that come back into play?

    Joe – I’ll say one thing for big Tony – dude plays more Irish music than any daytime DJ on 2fm

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    18.
    August 18, 2009
    11:26 am

    I have spent more time reading this article than I have spent listening to 2fm over the last 15/20 years. It is a poor effort. Dave Fanning he was all over Bono and Co on the beatbox and he is still at it on radio 1 he is stuck in the 1980’s. I have never heard the breakfast people but I saw the advert for their wacky quiz on tv and that was enough never to tune in to either tv or radio.

    Most people I know who would listen to the radio would be into Phantom or Today fm in the evenings I have also noticed people are finally copping on to Ray Darcy up on his moral Judgmental high horse and switching off. Should some of these personality presenters be only allowed onto the radio for a few years and be taken off before they just become a stale ego?

    Comment by spacey
    19.
    August 18, 2009
    11:43 am

    Joe – I’ll say one thing for big Tony – dude plays more Irish music than any daytime DJ on 2fm

    Totally innovative take on how you should award the Choice Award too, “just give it to the best bloody album,” which this year was Mick Flannery’s one apparently (of the 3 or so that he’d heard on nomination announcement day).

    Incidently, Ronan Collins, the best radio DJ in Ireland despite what I might think about vast swatches of his music picks.

    Comment by Ian
    20.
    August 18, 2009
    11:44 am

    There are parallels with that 2fm Breakfast show slot and Newcastle Utd FC.

    Meanwhile, Ian Dempsey’s Wenger-like policy of nurturing young artists and providing a platform for them on the big stage should be applauded.

    Comment by colly
    21.
    August 18, 2009
    11:49 am

    spacey – I have spent more time reading this article than I have spent listening to 2fm over the last 15/20 years.

    I don’t think you’ll be alone with that one – and there’s the problem for 2fm, Its new target audience have fecked off elsewhere and it will take more than Dave Fanning to get them back again

    Ian – we did give it to the best bloody album! I think…. I’d switch to 2fm if they’d Ronan Collins back on.

    colly – There are parallels with that 2fm Breakfast show slot and Newcastle Utd FC.

    Man, this post is bringing out some brilliant zingers. Chortle. But then again, at least NUFC have the Toon Army who will always come out to see ‘em come what may. If 2fm goes “older”, they lose whatever teens they still have and then have – what? – nothing

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    22.
    August 18, 2009
    11:59 am

    I have also noticed people are finally copping on to Ray Darcy up on his moral Judgmental high horse and switching off.

    His interview with Mary Harney on the cancellation of the cervical cancer vassince was horrendous. I’m no fan of hers but ANY guest on a radio show at the very very least deserves the opportunity to give their answer without someone who made their big break talking to puppets tutting and sighing loudly over them.

    Comment by Joe
    23.
    August 18, 2009
    12:04 pm

    Another two Fenton fave’s are Oleta Adams ‘Get Here’ and Born Slippy by Underworld. He was at thier Tripod gig, ya know? I was never a big fan of Tony always thought he was poor man’s Simon Young.

    Comment by Giles
    24.
    August 18, 2009
    12:25 pm

    we did give it to the best bloody album! I think

    Would tend to agree.

    Collins was on when I went out of the office to get a coffee just now. He just went from James Brown to the “splendid band” Wilco doing a Woody Guthrie cover, good stuff.

    Comment by Ian
    25.
    August 18, 2009
    12:27 pm

    It’s always good stuff with Ronan Collins. Maybe they should have given them the evening music show? Now that would have been wild…..

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    26.
    August 18, 2009
    12:40 pm

    I’m not sure it’s quite the conundrum it appears to be tho Jim.

    “You, dear OTR readers, are the new 2fm target audience.”

    I completely disagree. I mean, for every one 25-44 yr old Wire-loving, multi-gig-goin, Spotifying OTR reader there’s a few hundred in the same bracket who (literally!) que up to buy U2 albums and text into radio shows to hear ‘Sex On Fire’ and ask Ray why men have nipples. Will it really take a marketing mastermind to get those boys back down to 90-92fm?

    After finally realising they were barking up a brick wall with the Chris Brown demographic 2fm are just bringing back the Wispa. Piece of piss for whoever gets that job in my book.

    PS: Tenner says it was Ronan Collins who got Joe into Fleet Foxes.

    Comment by colly
    27.
    August 18, 2009
    12:41 pm

    I had planned on contributing an informed comment on the socio-political workings of 2fm but instead I’m having a mild hernia watching the Tony Fenton Playlist develop.
    I have the old jingle stuck in my head now, “Tony Fenton in the afternooooooooon, 3 to 5 live on 2-ef-eeeeeemmmm”. Also flashbacks of some feature he used to do called Lordy Lordy Look Who’s Forty where they harassed middle aged women over the phone into feeling embarrassed and irrelevant.
    God be with the days.

    Comment by Ali
    28.
    August 18, 2009
    12:47 pm

    @ JC why bother listen to the radio and put up with ads when you can select what you want? My Ipod does get interrupted by WOW HARVEY NORMAN WOW 20 times a day or Phantom mentioning their bloody music quiz every 5 seconds.

    People bother because it makes them part of a community of listeners, cures loneliness, opens their ears to new or unusual sounds, gives them songs they used to know that they’ve let gather dust on the shelf, because it can be entertaining, informative and interactive. I’ve never owned an ipod due to the lack of radio. Unless you do the work you can end up in a musical ghetto. Would I have gone out of my way to hear any of the new Muse album? No, but now I know what it sounds like, and I’m glad I know even if I never want to listen to it. Podcasts are great but they’re not a replacement for good music radio, they simply can’t get the music from the rights holders. Radio’s great because it’s a window on the world. Good radio is a cure for ignorance.

    I hope to f**k we’re not heading for US style stations. Nearly the whole FM dial in San Fran is free of a live human voice.

    It’s amazing how hard it is to care about 2fm or it’s troubles. I never linger in the dial around there, and I’m on the way to developing a lifetime habit of avoiding it. They need to junk such large chunks of the schedule to win and keep listeners that I don’t expect to be calling around anytime soon. As long G Ryan, Colm and Jim-JIm etc are the big poles holding up the tent I’m not looking inside.
    And that bloody website…

    Ronan Collins started his show today with the Noisettes and Neil Young. And the Magnificent Seven.

    Comment by Major Alfonso
    29.
    August 18, 2009
    12:51 pm

    I’ll make myself available to 2FM for a modest fee and a promise that they’ll let me smoke in the studio.

    *sits back and waits for the offers to stream in*

    Comment by Matt Vinyl/The Golden Maverick
    30.
    August 18, 2009
    12:53 pm

    I mean, for every one 25-44 yr old Wire-loving, multi-gig-goin, Spotifying OTR reader there’s a few hundred in the same bracket who (literally!) que up to buy U2 albums and text into radio shows to hear ‘Sex On Fire’ and ask Ray why men have nipples

    Colly @ 26 – sounds like the OTR readership to me there alright. Don’t forget for every couple of hundred folks who comment here every day/week, there are many thousands who are just happy to read and watch on from the sidelines. When I said OTR readership, I really meant in terms of age and demographics and not Wire-loving, Spotify-whoring music nutters. That said, it’s not a bad idea to base a radio station around them. It worked for the blog…..

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    31.
    August 18, 2009
    1:03 pm

    Seems like the Beeb is having an Identity Crisis too …

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/aug/17/malcolm-laycock-bbc-radio-2

    Comment by Mully
    32.
    August 18, 2009
    1:11 pm

    @ 22 Did you ever hear the interview with Dirk Benedict out of the a team he lectured him on smoking and then sulked through the rest of the interview as yer man had a different opinion. Someone junior would have been sacked for talking down to a guest like that.

    I heard the Harney interview too he seems to have decided to become the nations moral compass biased on his beliefs.

    Comment by spacey
    33.
    August 18, 2009
    1:26 pm

    Jim @ 13 “you need the tens of thousands who read OTR every day.”

    There’s millions of us surely, Jim, not just the measly “tens of thousands”…

    Comment by Bill
    34.
    August 18, 2009
    1:54 pm

    ‘there are many thousands who are just happy to read and watch on from the sidelines’

    Hi Jim !

    Comment by Kev
    35.
    August 18, 2009
    2:02 pm

    Hi readers!

    Good comments from Major @ 28 above – a good radio station (or a good radio show) is about that community which taps into it. Is there any of the 2fm shows currently on air which has that? Maybe Rick O’Shea before they stopped him Twittering/Facebooking/blogging and basically engaging with his audience on the level his audience wanted to engage with him? You need the interaction AND the music to make a great shoiw and station.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    36.
    August 18, 2009
    2:21 pm

    Major Alfonso @28

    Couldn’t agree more about finding new music on radio.

    I’ve had my entire music collection in a little electronic box for the last 5 years or so, but the main way I get to hear new music is from the radio. I don’t think I’ll ever stop listening as long as stations play new music (even if I don’t like all of it).

    Spotify’s “Like this, you might also like this” music suggestion feature is woeful for introducing you to new music.

    One thing that has really changed my listening experience is that I purchased an internet radio for my house a while back. It’s been a godsend since I moved back up north (you have no idea how dire the stations up here are – Snow Patrol are about as alternative as things get).
    I can listen to any southern station I want as well as some fantastic output from the bbc (Guy Garvey has a lovely show on 6 music).

    Comment by lutin
    37.
    August 18, 2009
    2:33 pm

    Everyone should just switch over to Lyric FM.

    Carl Corcoran has more personality than any of the aforementioned DJ’s while shows like the JK Ensemble and Nova are two of the most engaging shows on the airwaves. Playing new and unusual sounds from around the world (“classical, electronic, experimental and more”) as well as offering offering true interactivity through Phone/Text/Twitter/Facebook/MySpace etc.

    Comment by NoTV
    38.
    August 18, 2009
    2:34 pm

    NoTV – problem is only a very small swathe of the potential audience are into that kind of thing, which comes back to the position which Colly was articulating above.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    39.
    August 18, 2009
    3:08 pm

    I love the fact that nobody has made the point that RTE have just flipped format because they could not compete with the local/regional stations. Its a utter disgrace that the national broadcaster (although not funded by the licence fee) can just give up on a a demographic because they can’t handle the competition.

    If a commercial station wanted to do this they wouldn’t be allowed by the BCI.

    Comment by Paul Flynn
    40.
    August 18, 2009
    3:11 pm

    Paul – sorry to be pedantic here, but those points have been made in the post above (ie “finally admitting that they can’t compete for listeners with the Spins, Reds, Beats and Is of the land”) and also in the comments following yesterday’s post on RTE’s schedule changes – unarocks @ 7 at http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/ontherecord/2009/08/17/all-change-at-rte-radio/

    Given the BCI’s track record in this regard, though, they wouldn’t have stopped this.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    41.
    August 18, 2009
    3:20 pm

    Joe you forgot the daily classic Phony Tenton lines –

    “That was Phillo and the boyz”

    followed by…

    “Coming up… Van the Man”…

    It’s still better than Cork’s
    “Playin the hits you can’t get out of your head” 96 FM!

    I hate those feckin hits I can’t get out of my head.

    As for 2FM I am delighted so many people have finally tuned out. It has been such a plastic station for years, polluting the airwaves.

    Comment by Jimmy J
    42.
    August 18, 2009
    3:29 pm

    Its a lost cause imo…the days of radio interesting the music fan are fast dwindling…as has been said. I dont know one person in my age group (late twenties) who listens to the radio for music. We all listen to Matt Cooper, newstalk’s breakfast show or Ian Dempsey and the like for a laugh or dollop of current affairs…but as a source of music it is surely a redundant medium (or soon to be). there are just too many more options to listen to the stuff you want, not the stuff the presenter or the station want you to hear. The Spin’s, Red’s and Beats etc (however successful they may be) are equally as awful as 2FM from my own experience but each to their own.
    Truthfully, if they had decent internet for cars I dont think I would ever tune into an irish radio station again.

    Comment by pat
    43.
    August 18, 2009
    3:55 pm

    Used to follow Fanning religiously and got to hear for the first time a lot of the music that I ended up buying from his show but that was 20 years ago. Now tend to buy it based magazine reviews namely The Word and thats based on if you like these you’ll like this thing. 2fm is trying to chase the oxegen crowd but i dont think they listen to the radio much and they just listen to downloads. McLoone has probably inherited much of the “Fanning generation” cos as you say he plays good music and isnt like his predecessor who played the same stuff all the time. JK ensemble would be good if there was less of the classical stuff and more Mogwai. Dempsey, apart from 8:15 is awful and D’arcy has diappeared up his partners you know what. If only it was possible to get 6 music over here along with a good reception for Radcliffe and Maconie that entail having to have the TV turned on

    Comment by Feathers McGraw
    44.
    August 18, 2009
    4:39 pm

    I’m really surprised Larry Gogan hasn’t got a mention yet. I cringe any time he accidentally stumbles across my ears on a Saturday afternoon. In fact, I probably cringe for most of the rest of 2FM output aswell. Though I am partial to Jenny Huston and Dan Hegarty on a Friday if I manage to stay in.

    Who I do listen to is Paul McLoone. He plays great music, his enthusiasm is infectious and I love the way he can never get the hang of all the buttons that are in front of him.

    Comment by John
    45.
    August 18, 2009
    5:02 pm

    Lyric is where it’s at as far as RTE music radio is concerned: Gerry God-like Godley, John Kelly and Karl Corcoran.

    Not to mention George Hamilton – “Guten Abend everybody . . .here’s Bach!”

    Comment by Mumblin' Deaf Ro
    46.
    August 18, 2009
    5:50 pm

    @ 42
    “Truthfully, if they had decent internet for cars I dont think I would ever tune into an irish radio station again.”

    it surely can’t be far off

    Comment by robert e. lee
    47.
    August 18, 2009
    9:01 pm

    Wtf… Gerry Ryan likes Frank Zappa?!

    Comment by Hot Lunch
    48.
    August 19, 2009
    12:29 am

    Ian Wilson for the top job!

    Comment by Keith Downey
    49.
    August 19, 2009
    9:10 am

    @44 Actually

    “I’m really surprised Larry Gogan hasn’t got a mention yet.”

    I remember when i was c.10 I asked Larry for an autograph – He told me to F-off

    Comment by Mar
    50.
    August 19, 2009
    9:46 am

    its an interesting question re radio – is there a point ? i listen to the radio coz i dont have a cd player in my banger of a car. That was how i discovered Paul McLoone’s show. Him, Barry Redsetta and Dineen are the only shows on radio i’ve found in 12 months driving this car i listen too. Its either newstalk, the last word or even Radio1 beyond that. by and large the rest are rubbish. Save for Powerfm’s recent jaunt on the airwaves and Paul’s show i think i’d have given up on music on the radio. There’s a certain buzz about listening to music this way, particularly if the presenter is good and i think Paul McL is arguably the best around. But they’re few and far between. The main problem is a lack of pirates. It stifles creative broadcasting and new guns making a breakthrough to the big time. I think for a new generation , radio means nothing to them. Podcasts though, I listen to loads of them….are 2shitefm doing many of them ? no , they think digital radio is the where we’re headed…clueless

    Comment by Tayor
    51.
    August 19, 2009
    10:23 am

    Mar @ 49 – I find that very hard to believe. Larry is a true gentleman

    One more name I’ve heard from a few people over the last 24 hours for the top job is John McMahon – ex-producer of the breakfast show when it was good (The Full Irish), did a lot of stuff at Radio One and now in TV. He would be a very interesting choice, especially given where RTE now want 2fm to go. And he’d have the gumption to make the changes that have to be made. I’ve now added him to the main piece.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    52.
    August 19, 2009
    10:42 am

    Whatever about 2fm, i find phantom fm very disappointing these days. Apart from a few good slots here and there the playlists are in general predictable, repetitive and awful. Their ‘first plays’ or whatever term used to describe ‘The Song We’re Going To Plug Constantly This Week’ are mostly headwreckingly terrible and that’s before you’ve heard them 20 times. I gave up recently after hearing the new embarassing piece of rubbish that pearl jam are disgracing themselves with followed by that gossip song that is how many years old and still loved by phantom. I turned to Dub City FM, now there’s a radio station. Nice and interesting mix of fresh and classic music. And without so much of the vain attempts at humour radio dj’s feel compelled to offer as everyone seems to be trying to compete against today fm.

    Comment by Michael
    53.
    August 19, 2009
    10:48 am

    @50 agreed re McL, just a shame it wasn’t on earlier. tuesday nights on phantom would convince me to turn on the radio at home now and then, Dub city have a good folk hour on thursdays. Other than that the only slot i watch out for consistantly is radio 1 on saturdays at 8, when the south wind blows with philip king. Pure Gold.

    Comment by Michael
    54.
    August 19, 2009
    11:08 am

    Must agree with Michael @ 53, South Wind Blows, whenever I’ve heard it, is a truly captivating piece of radio. He does it from home (Dingle) too like Peel did in his last few years…

    Comment by barryb
    55.
    August 19, 2009
    11:29 am

    Hi all,

    Regular reader, very rare poster.

    Fascinating thread this, but with my industry hat on (advertising side of the world) would like to correct a number of incorrect perceptions:

    No, Radio listenership is not decreasing in Ireland – It is in fact higher now than it was about 3 years ago. 86% of the population tune in every day.

    No, Paul McLoone (whos show I enjoy by the way!) is not “hoovering up listeners” as Jim says in his post. The audience for the show has been pretty static for the last year, except in Dublin where it has almost completely dissapeared but that figure is doubtless coloured by the fact that Phantom are strong at that time of the evening.

    A tiny minority of people listen to the majority of their radio via the web/spotify/dab.

    Jim, I think you are still mistaking readers of OTR with the “regular joes” that Commercial Radio, and in this case 2FM are chasing with the shift in demographic. The target audience is the “golden demographic” of the 25-44 year olds. They, in the main, don’t have spotify or a lastfm account. They listen to The Corrs and Brian Adams, they have 2.4 children, they drive a people carrier, they shop in Superquinn, they take 2 holidays a year. They find Adam Sandler movies and the 98FM Dawn Patrol funny. They like music but wouldnt be “gatekeepers” by any means for new music. They will tolerate a certain amount of new stuff, but only if its mixed in with utterly-familiar tunes that they can listen to in the car before they go home to watch Coronation Street. At 9pm in the evening, more “regular Joes” are listening to Adrian Kennedy in Dublin than are listening to Today FM or 2FM in the entire country.

    I think there are very good points to be made about what 2FM should be and the direction it should take. I would love to see the station take more risks, I would love to see them drop the old guard but lets be realistic. Its not going to happen. In these times, RTE are ever more reliant on the commercial pulling power of 2FM and its “personalities”.

    However, any debate about 2FM needs to at least have its numbers right. You, and indeed I, may not like the JNLR but its how the business works (and its equivalents on TV and Print too of course!). These figures are in the main backed up by other research methods and radio stations own tracking.

    So, what are we suggesting for 2FM? Are we looking for it to head down a more creative and eclectic route aimed at an adult audience? Or should it be creative and ecletic and aimed at a young audience? (as was its remit way back in 79). Should RTE take the financial hit that would come from that? The DG at RTE recently stated that the future of the RTE Digital Services was a “live” question given the financial constraints and the fact that the DAB rollout is effectively stalled indefinitely now does not bode well for those outlets.

    Good debate, but just needs those clarifications!

    Tom

    Comment by Tom
    56.
    August 19, 2009
    11:29 am

    Have to agree with Colly @ 26. Just because we fall into the age group they’re going to target doesn’t mean we are their target audience.

    2FM is always going to be about the numbers, and that means mass market. The prime time music slots are going to be filled with the type of acts that fill the O2 / Croke Park / Slane.

    Before you say it, I know some acts that OTR readers like have sold out the O2, but for every one of them there are 20 shows by Coldplays / Britneys / etc.

    Comment by Philth
    57.
    August 19, 2009
    11:47 am

    Tom/Philth – I think you’re missing where I am coming from with my comment about 2fm going after the OTR readership. I clarified this to Colly @ 30 above

    “Don’t forget for every couple of hundred folks who comment here every day/week, there are many thousands who are just happy to read and watch on from the sidelines. When I said OTR readership, I really meant in terms of age and demographics and not Wire-loving, Spotify-whoring music nutters.”

    Again, way, way, way more people read OTR than comment here so it’s a huge mistake to take the comments as reflective of the OTR readership. There are many OTR readers who happily go to Coldplay, U2 and Snow Patrol gigs just as there are many OTR readers who wouldn’t go to those shows if they were paid. It’s a very broad church

    My point is that if 2fm are going after that demographic, they have to do A LOT of work to get them. It’s not enough to just bring back dave fanning, start playing more Kings Of Leon, start running text and Twiiter polls and hope for the best. They have to repair the damage done by 10 years of John Clarke, 10 years of clueless leadership, and that will require serious, remedial work. That’s the job for the new guy – and even who they hire will have a big bearing on that.

    One question for Tom the ad man – wil the ad community buy into 2fm’s change of direction right away or will they continue to go to Today FM because that’s where the audience are?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    58.
    August 19, 2009
    11:55 am

    barryb @ 54 – Agree with you on South Wind Blows. Listening back to one of the archived shows as I type (albeit with a poor streaming bitrate – will these ever be pumped up?). By the way, (pedant corner) King uses the RnG studio down in Baile na nGall, and not his home.

    Comment by Des
    59.
    August 19, 2009
    11:58 am

    What Irish radio needs is a few years of enthusiastic pirates who love the music they play whatever the genre.

    Then the legit stations can hoover up all the best jocks, give them a playlist, tell them when to speak and everything will be great again.

    Oh …

    Comment by Twenty Major
    60.
    August 19, 2009
    12:35 pm

    Quote: Joe, you forgot the daily classic Phony Tenton lines –

    “That was Phillo and the boyz”

    followed by…

    “Coming up… Van the Man”…

    Not to be confused with Barry Lang’s old routine of mentioning every lead singer as if that’s what the band was called, e.g. “That was Ricky Ross and Deacon Blue”, “Susanna Hoffs and the Bangles”, “music from Jim Kerr and Simple Minds”, or “Huey Lewis and the News”.
    Oh no, hang on, that last one is okay…

    Comment by redframewhitelight
    61.
    August 19, 2009
    1:21 pm

    @49 In fairness you should have probaly waited until he was finished taking a dump..lol

    Comment by fillerup
    62.
    August 19, 2009
    1:59 pm

    @59 – brilliant!

    Comment by Matt Vinyl/The Golden Maverick
    63.
    August 19, 2009
    2:55 pm

    Jim, I see your point about 2FM but lets face it, this is just a refocussing on an audience that they already target and have done for many years. 2FMs days of (daytime) targetting the “youth” are long gone. The bulk of 2FMs audience is already in the 25-44 age bracket.

    I think though you have another mistaken perception with regard to “where the listeners are” between Today FM and 2FM. 2FM have more listeners than Today FM at present and in Dublin (where the admen live!) the difference is pronounced with 2FM having about 60% more share than Today FM in the daytime. So, thats where the money goes. It follows the figures, but you seem to give the impression again that the figures are different (today fm…hoovering up listeners…continue to go to Today FM because thats where the audience are).

    I think you seriously overstate the “damage” done to 2FM over the past few years. To people who are “radio fans”, yes its been rudderless and messy for a long time now, but to our regular Joe, its the same as it ever was and they frankly dont care.

    Tom

    Comment by Tom
    64.
    August 19, 2009
    3:01 pm

    Tom – how would your own station, Dublin local station Phantom FM, fit into this?

    I obviously have no problem whatsoever with anyone discussing stuff here, but I always appreciate some honesty and transparency when it comes to people declaring their interest in what is under discussion.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    65.
    August 19, 2009
    10:46 pm

    in all this well-deserved praise for Today FM (I heart Paul McLoone), no-one has mentioned the other Ray – Foley that is. He’s up there in the ranks of G. Ryan and T. Fenton for worst DJ ever. And as for his compadre, PJ or JP, whatever his name is, he’s another reason to move the dial. the dulcet tones of Eamon Keane on Newstalk are a welcome respite.

    Comment by fionaoc
    66.
    August 20, 2009
    10:23 am

    the dulcet tones of Eamon Keane on Newstalk are a welcome respite.

    If forced to choose between Ray Foley and Eamon Keane, lopping off one’s ears with a rusty penknife would be a welcome respite.

    And I can think of many words to describe the tones of Keane, ‘dulcet’ would be approximately last on the list.

    Comment by Twenty Major
    67.
    August 20, 2009
    10:26 am

    Just as a matter of interest, seeing as people brought it up here and I’m quite curious – do people listen to Newstalk? I have to admit I rarely tune in so am I missing anything? And, speaking of informal market research, am I right in thinking that no-one is listening to 4FM?

    Oh – and today is JNLR day so I suppose we’ll find out for sure later on!

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    68.
    August 20, 2009
    10:34 am

    I used to listen to Darcy but he’s a pompous fool so Tom Dunne is the morning show of choice,usually i will keep Nestalk on until “Robat Lover” Gearge Hook comes on ,then the last word,and if im at home i’ll leave on Paul Mccloone

    Twenty just hates Keane because he never reads his texts out..

    Comment by fill3rup
    69.
    August 20, 2009
    10:40 am

    That reminds me – aside from the fact that this post has showed that OTR readers really do care about their radio, it also shows that there is not a lot of love in the room for Ray D’Arcy. Wonder why……

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    70.
    August 20, 2009
    10:58 am

    Probably because once he had the sprog he turned into 60 year old,holier than thou,humourless brain-wrong..

    Comment by fill3rup
    71.
    August 20, 2009
    11:12 am

    do people listen to Newstalk?

    I listen to Wide Angle with Karen Coleman on a Sunday morning – very good show. Switched to the breakfast show last week and heard Ivan Yates grilling some bloke from the IBOA in a way RTE never would – so that might be an option though Morning Ireland is the default.

    As for 4FM, listened one afternoon on a long car journey from West Cork. There was a terrific sounds-of-the-60s show on and very few adverts (never a good sign). I suspect most people don’t even know how to retune their radio to a new station. I fear for it.

    Comment by Ivor
    72.
    August 20, 2009
    11:45 am

    The only place I listen at home is in the kitchen and it’s tuned to Newstalk most of the day. Mostly because the radio I have is so crap it’s about one of the only three stations it can pick up (No thanks to Spin or Country Mix).

    Am quite ok with Moncrieff, have grown used to Hook and dig Off the Ball, but Eamon Keane drives me mental.

    And Tom Dunne might be über-fluff but I would never even think about turning over to D’Arcy or Jabba the Ryan.

    Comment by Twenty Major
    73.
    August 20, 2009
    12:04 pm

    it also shows that there is not a lot of love in the room for Ray D’Arcy. Wonder why…

    ‘cos for the longest time D’Arcy has one ambition – he wants to be Gay.

    Comment by Ivor
    74.
    August 20, 2009
    12:31 pm

    I listen to newstalk whenever I drive into and out of work – I flick between it and radio 1 when the latter starts repeating its stories.

    Fuddy duddy that i am i also listen to 4fm sometimes – it’s usually the compromise choice when i have others in the car and when lyric lapses into irish trad.

    Comment by Mumblin' Deaf Ro
    75.
    August 20, 2009
    12:34 pm

    Hi Jim

    Just a small point. With respect, I think it’s important to say I personally don’t think the Tom identity issue which you have raised has any negative bearing whatsoever on the massive validity of the points being made. It’s important to state it so that people stay focused on what’s important – the facts.

    It seems he simply wanted to clarify some vaguely incorrect generalizations and inaccuracies using honest and widely-available stats. The discussion is of two national stations. The one minor mention of his own station being “strong in the evenings” relative to its direct rival is a statistical fact, not an opinion.

    Too often during online handwringing over the state of radio, sweeping generalisations, subjective opinion and innocently-held misnomers are presented as facts.

    I’m sure you can appreciate that without someone taking inauccuracies to task, it all gets a bit silly. And sure no one wants that!

    :)

    All the best

    Fiona (in Phantom, waving).

    Comment by Fiona
    76.
    August 20, 2009
    12:46 pm

    @64 – Zing!

    Comment by Michael
    77.
    August 20, 2009
    12:53 pm

    Fiona – I’m waving back at you!

    While I agree that you can happily make your point without revealing who you are, there is a huge difference when you have a vested interest in what is under discussion.

    It’s something I’ve always been very careful about since OTR started in Apr 07, especially when I have several eggs in my basket myself (Choice Music Prize, show on Phantom FM etc etc). I encourage robust discussion here on the unspoken proviso that people declare their interests where one should be declared. I think this is why people come back here day after day and why there’s (he says immodestly) a much better and more thorough standard of discussion and debate here than elsewhere on music and media matters. I mean, how long would it take for a discussion on 2fm on boards.ie, Thumped or Radiowaves to descend into name-calling farce?

    As regards the inaccuracies, we’ll see later today about that!

    And (declaring his own interests here) thanks for sorting my instant carts wall!

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    78.
    August 20, 2009
    1:07 pm

    No probs, Jim, it was my life’s work, my own private Sistine Chapel celing.

    I completely agree with you about declaring interests as you can imagine (sorry, my not saying that was an oversight).

    But I’m just a fan of facts and wouldn’t like the validity of what Tom was saying to be drowned out by other issues, which I very genuinely don’t think impact on the points being made.

    I’m not Tom, by the way, but I’m sure you can plunge into IP address land and figure that out. I’m Fiona, and just like Jack Nicholson’s always been the caretaker, I’ve always been Fiona

    Cheers!

    :)

    Comment by Fiona
    79.
    August 20, 2009
    1:51 pm

    Fiona – oh, I know who “Tom” is alright!

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    80.
    August 20, 2009
    2:38 pm

    People are always posting anaonymously on Thumped (where I live internet speaking) without declaring their interest but it’s nearly always possible to work out who they are or what their connection is. I’m not sure I agree with outing people who want to post under a different name as they may not be speaking from the point of view of their organisation and may get into trouble at work if it is presented as such.

    Comment by Mumblin' Deaf Ro
    81.
    August 20, 2009
    2:41 pm

    MDR – point taken and that particuarly applies when someone is not toeing the company line. But it’s completely different when someone is posting about an area in which they themselves are working and are bigging up their own company/business without declaring an interest – see “Tony’s” comment at 55 above.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    82.
    August 20, 2009
    4:14 pm

    Your transparency point is completely valid, Jim, of course it is.

    However, in this instance, Tom could be a retired horse whisperer from Muff, it wouldn’t change the fact that claiming Paul McLoone is hoovering up listeners is just untrue, as is claiming that radio listenership nationwide is dropping and so on….

    But I think we’re all clear now, so that’s cool.

    Comment by Fiona
    83.
    August 20, 2009
    4:55 pm

    Interesting that Phantom Tom and his fellow apologists are all about the evening figures for the station been strong – strange how they don’t mention how more people listen to Country Mix than Phantom during the day.

    What are the figures like for Phantom’s lunchtime and drivetime shows, eh? Why are they not mentioning those audience figures?

    Face it folks, Phantom has failed. What could have been a good idea has turned out to be not a good idea.

    Still, I suppose that’s what you call spin. Oh hold on, no, Spin is what Phantom is not.

    Comment by Sinister Meat
    84.
    August 21, 2009
    10:00 am
    85.
    August 21, 2009
    10:07 am

    don;t listen to radio mucyh when i’m at home as i can listen to my own music then but on days when i’m out delivering a lot it goes a little something like this…

    7-9 – morning ireland

    9.01 – abandon rte the moment turgidy arrives and put on ipod in car til 1 for rte1 news – though occasionally listen to pat kenny’s current affairs if something big has happened the day before

    1.45 – 4.30 – ipod
    4.30-7 – matt cooper
    7 onwards – ipod or very occasionally paul mcloone

    saturdays – bbc radio 5 for the footie

    podcasts – guardian football weekly on tuesdays and fridays, bbc and guardian movie podcasts are pretty good too

    rte and matt cooper do current affairs pretty well so can’t complain there – only caught newstatlk a few times but never been overly impressed to be honest.

    as someone above mentioned, if car radio’s could downlaod podcasts or internet radio then i imagine a LOT of mainstream stations in this country would see a lot of lost listeners, especially in the under 40 age group

    Comment by robert e. lee
    86.
    August 21, 2009
    10:11 am

    one major bugbear for me with rte though is that it seems you cna only listen live if you have realplayer, why on earth don’t they put their station on itunes too?????

    Many’s the time i wanted to listen to the news when working through lunch or late at night and that damn realplayer has prevented me doing so – grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

    Comment by robert e. lee
    87.
    August 21, 2009
    3:36 pm

    Any doubters of Irish radio need only listen to Cian Ó Cíobháin (RnaG), Donal Dineen or John Kelly. Beats an iPod anyday.

    Comment by Eoin
    88.
    September 6, 2009
    6:00 pm

    I must be unusual in that I’ve stopped listening to Today FM in the evening since Mr McLoone has taken over that slot.

    Bringing Ronan Collins into the fold at 2FM is a great suggestion….doing lunch or afternoon slot.

    2FM should realise that teenager don’t listen to radio. I listen to the radio, much to the amusement of my teenage kids.

    2FM needs to go down the road of BBC Radio 2.

    All you young folk can stick to your ipods or Spin/Phantom!!!!

    Comment by EDDIE JOYCE
    89.
    September 7, 2009
    11:44 am

    Eddie, me old pal! Welcome to the debate.

    2FM should realise that teenager don’t listen to radio.

    v

    All you young folk can stick to your ipods or Spin/Phantom!!!!

    There’s the problem. Teens and 20somethings DO listen to radio when they find a station which responds to their needs, which talks with them and not at them, which plays music which they dig (and that’s as wide and deep as everything from Bell X1 and Florence & The Machine to Dizzee Rascal and David Guetta), which is fun,

    2fm tried to do all this and failed because the man in charge was never fully arsed about it and has no understanding of youth culture in the 21st century. Instead of admitting he didn’t have a clue, he tried so many different things which just plain did NOT work. In the meantime, his station let the ball drop and stations around the country like the Spins, Beats, Reds and i102s took up the teen/youth mantle and stole that audience. Now, 2fm have been forced to go after Today FM which is a Herculean task for the new man or woman.

    It’s going to be an interesting 2 years ahead in pop radio land!

    Comment by Jim Carroll

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