On The Record

  • The end of the Road

    January 20, 2009 @ 2:19 pm | by Jim Carroll

    There was a lot of shocked reaction here and elsewhere last week as news spread of the imminent closure of Road Records in Dublin. For the last 11 years, Dave Kennedy and Julie Collins have seen their shop on Fade Street become, like all the best record stores worldwide, something more than just a retail outlet. It was the fact that the closure of the store would mean an end to this community centre of sorts for a certain community of Irish artists which seemed to sadden people the most.

    The analysis for the closure has already been done. As the owners have pointed out, Road is pulling down the shutters for the last time because selling CDs is no longer a viable economic model in this day and age of downloading, filesharing, competition from online stores, reduced retail footfall in the city-centre, a greying music-buying demographic and the increased costs in keeping a Main Street record shop open. Add in a recession which is getting worse in this country with every passing day (the economic downturn seems to be happening here faster than anywhere else - it seems the slide is every jot as dramatic as the rise) and you can see why Dave and Julie have reached the end of the Road. There is also, obviously, no money to be made from operating a community centre for Irish bands.

    Of course, those factors are not just unique to Road Records. We also saw Abbey Discs disappear in the last few months as Billy Murray did the sums and decided he couldn’t keep going. That closure was as big a shock to many as the Road news. I’m sure the dwindling number of indie shops who are still in business in Ireland are wondering who will be next. Worldwide too, the changes in the sector which began a couple of years ago when the Tower brand disappeared from US streets continue to occur - see last week’s news that the landmark Virgin Megastore on New York’s Times Square is to close.

    What probably makes the Road story so newsworthy for On The Record readers is that the store was an outpost for Irish releases. It became one of the shop’s USPs - it was where you knew you were likely to find a rake of new indie releases in the racks. Relationships were built between the shop and those acts - the shop plugged the acts and the acts supplied the music knowing that they were not going to be ripped off. To be fair, though, other Irish shops were just as user-friendly to local acts, but Road were the ones most closely identified with emerging scenes and who made a virtue out of this.

    Despite what some people might think, it is just not possible to sustain a retail business from selling Irish rock and pop music. If it was, you’d have every single chancer flogging Out On A Limb CDs and Road would not be closing down. The audience for Irish rock and pop CDs and vinyl is way smaller than you might think and, as Road found out, the financial reward from stocking these is certainly not enough to stay in business when all the other pointers indicate doom and gloom.

    Leaving aside the well-intentioned plans for farewell gigs and the like to mark the passing of Road for a moment, the real question is what’s next for music retail in this city and country. Few industry observers are optimistic about a future for this sector. If shops do survive, chances are they will not be stocking the same volume or variety of Irish and indie releases as Road has done for the last 11 years. Releases which generally sell in small quantities will become harder and harder to find in domestic shops. The fine art of spending a pleasant hour browsing in a shop and coming across random nuggets is about to end.

    Yet, you have to wonder if there are other reasons for music retail’s poor showing in Dublin at present. Last Friday afternoon, I spent a few hours wandering around Groningen and browsing in four well-stocked record shops. It’s the fifth year in a row that I’ve been in that Dutch city at the start of January and as far as I can remember, all four shops have been in business all that time. Each one seems to be doing good business and obviously has a year-round customer base. Given that the population of Groningen is just over 180,000, it’s quite remarkable to me that the city can support at least four (as far as I know, there are more stores elsewhere in the city) record stores. It’s not a price thing - there may be some good bargains but they’re not giving the CDs away - and it’s not just because there are 45,000 students attending the local university (do students still buy CDs?) and I’m sure Dutch commercial rents and rates are on a par with elsewhere in Europe, yet the shops are still in business.

    So why can’t Dublin, with its supposedly healthy band scene and allegedly huge number of music fans, support a shop like Road? Are music fans content to rely on MP3s and online streams to find out about new local bands? Is it the case that Irish fans really do prefer the live gig to the recorded album? Or is it the fact that we’ve decided CDs and vinyl are a luxury we can do without now that there’s an economic downturn about?

    I’m genuinely interested to know what readers think about this. We’ve already done the “oh, that’s terrible news” last week (and don’t get me wrong - it is terrible news), but bands are unlikely to stop making music and trying to flog a physical CD or record because Road is no longer open for business. Are there any solutions out there? Or is the end of the music retailing sector as we have known is really nigh? Over to you.

  • 116 Comments »

    1.
    January 20, 2009
    2:24 pm

    This is far easier said than done, but if there was a way to carry discounted stock the way the remaining Fopp stores in the UK do combined with a bar/cafe set up like Monorail in Glasgow which would bring in other revenue streams, then we really could be on to something….well interested to hear people’s feedback and suggestions too.

    Comment by Eamon Sweeney
    2.
    January 20, 2009
    2:29 pm

    Eamon - Fopp was a great business model until they over-extended themselves and took over more shops (basically, the Music Zone chain) than they could handle. I was always surprised that we didnt see a Fopp-like operation in Ireland but, going on Road’s closure and comparing it to the Groningen picture (which is just as example because I happened to be there last week), maybe we just dont have the market or audience for record shops?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    3.
    January 20, 2009
    2:36 pm

    Apparently Monorail does pretty well, mainly because it’s a great place to hang out. If they had the record store alone it would probably be shut by now.

    Record stores are fecked, but I hope/believe most major cities can sustain a Rough Trade, Picadilly, Other Music etc.

    Comment by Eamon Sweeney
    4.
    January 20, 2009
    2:39 pm

    Why is Road closing? Well apart from all the reasons outlined already by the owners (plus, I’m sure Groningen has far lower rents than Dublin) enough people just didn’t go and buy enough records from the place!

    If all the people mourning the loss of Road (myself included) spent more time in the shop spending money, it would have survived. The end.

    I loved Road, it was brilliant, and Dave and Julie are legends, and it is really sad to go, but all this talk on Thumped about ways to keep it going is bollocks. I’m sure people have good intentions, but if everyone feels so strongly about it, then they should have spent more time spending in the shop.

    Harsh? True?

    Comment by unarocks
    5.
    January 20, 2009
    2:44 pm

    Eamon - Monorail sounds like the new Rough Trade shop in London. But EVEN if we had a shop/cafe like that in Dublin, would it survive? I really think a lot of people are kidding themselves about how much support there is here for a record shop in 2009

    Una - Yes, it’s harsh but it is also true. What I’m trying to do here is tease out just why there is not a market for a record shop like in Dublin, a city which is supposed to have a large music-loving population - or what can be done to provide a solution or alternative for the future

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    6.
    January 20, 2009
    2:47 pm

    It’s not bollocks Una, it’s people realising and admitting they should have made an effort to support Road more.
    And sadly it’s too late.
    But people are now wondering what they can do to prevent this happening to more shops, and are starting to analyse how the whole mp3/downloading/internet buying culture has pulled us away from the more ‘traditional’ means of buying records.
    It might be the benefit of hindsight, but people realise that and I’m sure begrudging people this is hardly the way to go.
    Personally I’m trying to be positive and pro-active and learn from my ‘mistakes’. If people would rather sit on their laurels and watch as other shops close, then that’s their choice.

    Comment by sweetoblivion
    7.
    January 20, 2009
    3:02 pm

    I don’t know if we have that large a music loving population, well not that many obsessives in the scheme of things. Then even with the obsessives I know very few of them are regularly buying music.

    I’d really like to see a regular/permanent music fair. If such a thing could be set up with overheads low enough to give it the time to become established and give it’s small (at best) market base time to realise it’s there. There are plenty of niches out there not catered for.

    Unfortunately boom times are a time for businesses to specialise and in lean times they should diversify.

    Simpliest thing to do though is to support the few independants we have left and if the niche you want isn’t being covered let them know what you’re lacking for.

    Comment by Void
    8.
    January 20, 2009
    3:08 pm

    One smart idea I’ve head about is a shop in Denmark (I think) which is “by appointment only” - the owner has a room in his house which he uses as the store and you ring up and make an appointment to come have a look around, though I think he does open on Saturdays. Upside - low rents and overheads. Downside - no casual shoppers, but given how few casual shoppers we seem to have in Dublin at the moment for music, this may not be much of a downside

    I think, though, what we are looking at is a retail solution aimed at the obsessives, the ones who feel uneasy if they leave a music shop without having made a purchase. They’re the ones who are buying, not the casual music fan who probably only goes into a record shop in December

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    9.
    January 20, 2009
    3:18 pm

    i think stores like road will always be labours of love rather than cold hard businesses - and therein lies the difference. Unless you operate a business as just that, it will not succeed. No amount of goodwill, soundness, or emotional investment on your part will save your business if you are not prepared to adapt and make tough decisions - that goes for any enterprise, not just a record store.

    However, where one door closes, another opens. I have been in touch with the owner of Horror Business, Crow St this past week. He says that he already stocks Irish independent releases - mostly punk, but he said any band who are looking for somewhere to sell their wares should go in and talk to him and he’d see what he could do.

    Individual stores will always close, but in their place come new ones. It was ever thus.

    Comment by Liam
    10.
    January 20, 2009
    3:28 pm

    you are overlooking the biggest downside of all jim… the cost of keeping stock…

    i buy tonnes of lp / cd’s… and to be honest, i tried very hard to support road… if they had something in stock then i would buy it for €18.99 even though that was €4 more expensive than on wicklow street…

    but i am an impatient buyer… as a small outfit, dave and julie couldn’t afford to keep large stocks and they didn’t have total control in when they could get something back in… so i went elsewhere on a regular basis, frequently online… i feel extra bad about this now…

    the geezer in gronigen probably has a very small clientele and a very niche stock of records which he rarely replenishes…

    Comment by Ally
    11.
    January 20, 2009
    3:35 pm

    Ally - true, that. The last few times I was in Road, they did not have what I was looking for either. And one of the shops in Groningen certainly - The Magic Buzz, where history has it that John Peel first came across The White Stripes - was very niche in that it had the biggest selection of US garage rock I’ve ever seen in my life.

    But, to flip your point for a moment for the sake of finding a solution, would a shop which HAD a big quantity of stock survive in Dublin? I really dont think so - I think the problem is not with the shops but with the market. There are just not enough obsessive music fans to support the kind of shop which has become the norm here in the last decade.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    12.
    January 20, 2009
    3:41 pm

    Plugd Records in Cork is very small (much smaller than Road) but is always really up to date with stock and orders specialist things too - it always keeps really up to date with new releases and has a decent second hand section. Plus it carries loads of different labels/genres on vinyl and CD.

    Comment by sweetoblivion
    13.
    January 20, 2009
    3:48 pm

    Sadly I think it’s a case that the format just doesn’t work here anymore. Places like the Netherlands and Germany don’t compare in terms of cost of living or doing business. It’s hard to judge from the outside. Who knows what kind of tax concessions etc might be in place too. I know a metal/punk/hardcore club in Rotterdam that gets state funding under some sort cultural initiative. Scandinavian governments are quite progressive in this regard also but that kind of thing sounds completely alien here.

    Also I guess with gig attendances being pretty good here in recent years a lot of the people that would be buying releases by Irish artists would pick them up at the bands own gigs. Leaving a smaller pool of less partisan people to purchase them in the likes of Road i.e. the hardcore fanbase buy direct from the bands. Every individual in that non hardcore pool of people has a certain amount of disposable income to spend on music releases and until Irish artists can market themselves to the same extent as their international peers then they’re not going to be in a position to compete for a share of that income no matter what channel the sales are through.

    Comment by Crunch
    14.
    January 20, 2009
    3:50 pm

    With Ally’s impatient buyer comment I’m reminded of all the times i’d be in Road on a Friday and quite regularly folks would be in looking for that day’s new release. Unfortunately the response was a “Sorry, haven’t got our stock yet”. Then as helpfully as ever they’d mention somewhere that had it.

    I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a record/cd stall set up. Basically order in the kind of stuff i cant find stocked here. Labour of Love completely seeing as far as i can tell I’d be the whole target market. I’ve lately taken to wondering if there’d be a suitable venue for a regular market and would there be any like minded individuals to try the same (different stock) and hopefully between us, attract some kind of worthwhile market.

    Comment by Void
    15.
    January 20, 2009
    4:01 pm

    @12 - Agree with sweetoblivion but even Plugd disappoints sometimes - couldn’t find Merriweather Post Pavillion there last weekend and had to go elsewhere. That’s happened a few times there and goes back to the problem of the cost of ordering large stock. A manager of a one time independent music shop in Mitchelstown told me that was his biggest problem - he was never sure how much to order. Too much and you lose money, too little and even those willing to pay that little bit more for a local shop are forced elsewhere.

    Overall Plugd is great though. It’s funny that an aging demograpic is cited for the drop in sales, if anything I’m buying more music now than I did in college - despite having the transmitters and all I cant be arsed hooking up all the paraphernalia every time I want to listen to my mp3 player in the car and revert back to CDs. But I suppose it’s them kids and their ringtones…

    Comment by Joe
    16.
    January 20, 2009
    4:04 pm

    Void - you could get in touch with those Dublin Food co-op people - they allowed independent’s day to use their premesis before so maybe they’d be into getting a regular record stall there… just a thought..

    Comment by Liam
    17.
    January 20, 2009
    4:08 pm

    “Despite what some people might think, it is just not possible to sustain a retail business from selling Irish rock and pop music. If it was, you’d have every single chancer flogging Out On A Limb CDs and Road would not be closing down.”

    Sadly this is very true. Without Road or Plugd specifically there is no way we (out on a limb) could have ever kept going. Yet, as much as we tried to make people go and buy from their shops - e.g. we sold exclusively online from Road for over two years, gave discounts to people who bought cds in those shops if they were going to gigs etc, the volume/popularity of Irish independent releases isn’t enough to keep a shop going.

    The last time I was in Cork, i spent a heck of a lot of money in Plugd records, but when the British pound went weak, I was all buying stuff up on Amazon. While for some this would be to do with convenience or fiscal matters, I unfortunately don’t live within eighty miles of a good record store.

    Am hoping the Road online shop gets fixed and I can buy a few more thing before they go

    Comment by Ciarán
    18.
    January 20, 2009
    4:09 pm

    It’s another example of how the internet has scuppered what was once a sustainable business model.

    If the CD is not in the shop, our quest for instance gratification means we’ll go online to buy it rather than getting the shop to order it in. We’ll also save a few bob by doing that so the next time, we probably won’t even go into the shop, which means no chance of an impulse purchase on something else.

    Or we’ll download it from RapidShare or wherever and deal with our guilty conscience by saying (1) we’ll buy a ticket for the live show (2) we’ll also buy the CD or vinyl directly from the band at the show and (3) hey, we’re putting one in the eye of The Man by doing this. The Man just happens to be Dave and Julie at Fade St in this case

    Bricks-and-mortar stores dependant on what is already a shrinking market have no answer to that.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    19.
    January 20, 2009
    4:11 pm

    Monorail in Glasgow is amazing,a great example of making it work..record shop/cafe/bar/venue,great food served. You could hang out for hours in there and without doubt walk out with a cd or vinyl under your arm. Imagine turning downstairs of Simon’s Cafe in Georges St. Arcade into a record store..people would pay rent let alone buy things! I also know alot of people that buy vinyl when their abroad and rarely at home in Dublin? Is there a slight limit to what we can get here?

    Comment by Ross
    20.
    January 20, 2009
    4:16 pm

    if you look at cinema in ireland, as a related market,

    the wrestler and slumdog, were both accessible, well reviewed and marketed films , but both came in third in box office over the last two weeks to bride wars and role models.

    e.g. if you arent making money on mass market albums to sustain indie releases, the going is tough

    I presume the same applies to music

    Comment by OC
    21.
    January 20, 2009
    4:21 pm

    Cheers Liam, it’s about the only possible idea i had.
    I was away the last Independant’s Day so have no idea how it worked out. I’d love to see something regular though, and with a few dealers there.
    Was there one weekend for a bit of clothes and that, the one music stall there consisted of second hand stuff the likes of which I’d find discarded in my Brothers’ old bedrooms at home.
    I’ll try get in touch with them.

    Comment by Void
    22.
    January 20, 2009
    4:22 pm

    I think the Monorial example is the way forward.

    Comment by Sean D
    23.
    January 20, 2009
    4:27 pm

    I think a key point of the issue is age. There wasn’t a buzzword of cool around Road that would attract youngsters who’d want to go in and hang around on a weekend afternoon…kids always have the most money but instead you see them in Tower or HMV. In Road people would always come in with something or other in mind, Irish or not, and drift to the rest of goods on offer.
    I don’t think the younger generation are as aware of the diversity of Irish music on offer either, there’s so little involvement catering for the pre-college group. Dave mentioned how Road’s client base had matured with the shop and drifted into cheaper online sales while not many new, younger customers made up the numbers after that. Kids are relying on friends, downloads and digital tv for music now and the real shame is that they’ve missed out on something really special, a quality, true independent record store.

    Comment by Naomi
    24.
    January 20, 2009
    4:30 pm

    @18 - Jim, Can you envisage a future where we walk into a music shop, ask for something, and the shopkeeper burns you a CD and prints the label out for you? That would solve the problem of things not being in stock…
    I suppose with some much hmming and hawing at the top of the music industry with regard to the status of online media and physical releases, those at the front line were always going to suffer.

    That shop i mentioned earlier, Horror Business, actually do a cool service whereby if you buy a CD, they’ll rip it on the spot and transfer it to your MP3 player so you can listen on your way home - that’s a nice bit of innovation imo and a sign of the ways that businesses are going to have to adapt and come up with new ways of attracting customers..

    @15 - Joe - i’m not sure that an ageing demographic can be blamed for the decline in Road’s fortunes. Ok, they say the kids wouldn’t come in, but did they make a concerted and sustained effort to encourage them to?? Was there a Road Records bebo page for example? It’s one thing to say “kids don’t buy records” but obviously not doing anything to encourage them to, especially when the survival of your business depends on you developing new markets, is poor business practice..

    Comment by Liam
    25.
    January 20, 2009
    4:39 pm

    I think you have to examine the culture of how Irish people consume and experience music, as everyone I know goes to more gigs than buys CDs or records.

    There’s a big market for merch in Ireland, so if bands play more gigs, they’ll sell more CDs.

    Personally, I think record stores that don’t diversify (offer a cafe, or other products, or a hang out spot) are over.

    Genres are blurring in every sector of life, and retail is no different.

    Comment by unarocks
    26.
    January 20, 2009
    4:58 pm

    The economy is in free fall and people just aren’t willing to spend money on what can be consumed online for free…i.e. myspace, youtube etc. Not illegal downloads.

    I’m quite happy to listen to the music in this way and save quite a lot of cash doing so.

    As Jim mentioned, it does appear that the Irish economy is sliding much quicker with no leadership to reassure the public that it’ll get better anytime soon.

    Comment by nerraw
    27.
    January 20, 2009
    5:04 pm

    if you arent making money on mass market albums to sustain indie releases, the going is tough

    This is an excellent point. And if you rely on selling Take That to indulge the indie rack in your store you need a gimmick to get the Take That fans into your shop instead of picking the album up for cheaper whilst doing your shopping in Tesco

    Comment by Joe
    28.
    January 20, 2009
    5:29 pm

    I think you have to start with the music itself. Where can you hear new Irish music? not many places. Where can you see music videos. not many places.

    If the music has a big audience it stands to reason you should have bigger sales.

    I think RTE should be lobbied the hell out of to play more Irish bands. A big sustained campaign to turn it around from the dated shite it plays day to day.

    Comment by dave
    29.
    January 20, 2009
    6:00 pm

    @ 25 Una: “Personally, I think record stores that don’t diversify (offer a cafe, or other products, or a hang out spot) are over. ”

    That’s all well and good to say, but where are these magical stores that will give you a massage as you choose between an old 70s rarity and this week’s most modern??
    Record shops in Ireland are just that, Record Shops.
    Do you think HMV will go out of business if it doesn’t open a café? Or Tower?
    I take the point that for small stores it would be a great way to generate some interest and business, but I don’t see it happening tbh.. Besides, don’t you need seperate licences from the council to run a café vs a shop? Would such added expenses necessarily be worth it??

    Comment by Liam
    30.
    January 20, 2009
    6:04 pm

    Liam @ 24 - sure, why would i do that? I could do that myself at home and give the money directly to the band - or buy the CD from amazon or play or boomkat or wherever.

    The main purpose of a record shop for me is always the surprise factor - hearing a great record being played in store, finding a record I’ve been after for ages (which happened in Groningen last week - an Elektric Music album which I used to have and now have again), buying a record because you get a second sense about it.

    Actually, does Record Collector still have its stock of rare records which they will tape/record for you?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    31.
    January 20, 2009
    6:14 pm

    Liam @ 29 : you’re right, independent record shops in Ireland only serve one purpose - to be nice to you while shifting CDs.

    No, HMV won’t go out of business if they don’t open a cafe or whatever, but they are a huge international brand drawing from a massive customer base. RE: Tower, it’s independently owned as far as I know. As in, it’s Tower in name, but not in nature. Maybe I’m wrong on that one, but I think it’s something like that.

    My favourite places to buy music don’t exclusively sell music; Fopp in London until the one I went to closed (although some stores have reopened I think), Colette in Paris, and Earwax in New York. Fopp sells books, Colette sells clothes, books and other stuff, Earwax is just hilarious because the staff are so hipstery. So there’s an extra draw to all of them.

    It’s not enough anymore to just do one thing, you have to diversify. In the same way that alcohol is now a secondary product in pubs and clubs next to entertainment, the simple act of buying a CD will become redundant unless there is some other draw to get people into a shop. I know it sounds weird that you will have to use tools that aren’t really about buying records to get people into a record shop, but that’s the way it is, in my opinion.

    This is happening globally in retail; people either don’t go to indie stores because they go to larger stores that have everything, or go to indie stores that offer multiple consumer goods / a unique experience.

    Road did offer a kind of unique experience, given the friendliness and knowledge of the staff, but clearly, it wasn’t enough.

    Comment by unarocks
    32.
    January 20, 2009
    7:29 pm

    On a side point, I wonder could the music retail sector going the way of the film/TV retail one?

    Look at the DVD box-set – a relatively new format and market – and if the spacing arrangements in HMV/Zavvi tells/told us anything it’s that it’s one which consumers have warmed to and one which has a lot of life in it.

    Now, I practically salivated when I saw ‘The Complete Introduction to Northern Soul’ box-set in a shop recently and yearned for it in a way which I haven’t done for a single CD in a very long-time. I even considered buying the ‘Simon & Garfunkel: The Collection’ (all 5 studio albums and a DVD in a neat little black case) over Christmas…until I realised that I hate those two little pussies and their songs for schoolteachers.

    Point is, there wasn’t really a demand for owning all 96 episodes of Quantum Leap ten years ago until the industry developed a product which made the possibility feasible and attractive. Add to that, the fact that the box-set is a far more desirable object than the hackneyed, devalued, get-one-free-with-your-Sunday-newspaper single compact disc…and you have a product which appeals to the sad, fetishistic, Hornby-esque instincts in us all. It might seem a bit like scraping the barrel, but our consumption habits have irreversibly altered and the Ipod is going nowhere – so the music industry has to pull every last trick its got in order to persuade us to buy more of their shit.

    And Jim, before we have that Radiohead business model argument all over again – I have no idea where new/emerging acts could go with such a format…A ‘NOW That’s What Bloggers Are Into This Month’ 8XCD, 2XDVD, T-shirt and mouse-mat combo?

    Comment by colly
    33.
    January 20, 2009
    8:00 pm

    I’m sure the fact that nobody shopped in town over Christmas, and both HMV and Zavvi have had to slash their prices in recent months also killed them somewhat.

    I have to confess I never bought anything in Road, to the best of my knowledge. When i was younger I used to go in there, but I never really had enough disposable income to justify spending more money for the same product.

    Unfortunately, that came before I became an enthusiast of Irish music, and by then I’d started getting most of my music for free. And I still don’t have enough money!

    Comment by Dave
    34.
    January 20, 2009
    8:47 pm

    After reading all the comments I’m still puzzled by what Jim initially said in his post: how can a Dutch town with a population one fifth the size of Dublin have 4 or more (seemingly) thriving indie record stores?

    Does rent play a big part? Are they so niche, like the garage rock one (would love to drop in there!), that they can survive with a small but absolutely dedicated customer base?

    Comment by Noise Annoys
    35.
    January 20, 2009
    9:13 pm

    From experience, a few of the problems facing music retailers are as follows;

    - Albums reviewed weeks/months in advance of its release date, a good review way in advance will drive the traffic online, a review near date of release will drive punters into shops.

    - Negative publicity on price and service from the press and online, most of the time without any knowledge of how the wheel turns, see below.

    - EMI, Universal, Sony, Warner charge the shops a fortune for stock, if a shop buys a new release at €11/12, they can’t make any real margin if they sell for less than €15, sell it more that €15 and it won’t sell, no margin no bills paid, no sales no bills paid. Beatles catalogue available from EMI from €12 up to €28, a joke for sure. Sending back returns is also a nightmare, also leads to dead stock sold cheap with huge margin implications

    -Nobody (journalists) has a pop at the suppliers for fear of losing guest lists, free albums etc. Much easier to lash the retailer out of it, retailer see sales dip because of this.

    - Change in buying habits, HMV selling DVD box sets at very good prices, also doing €4 for 22 campaigns on DVD, Games taking up a bigger slice of the sales mix in bigger shops. As @32 said, customers staying under one roof to buy all. Games and DVD taking up space that once housed music in the bigger shops.

    - Indies losing their customers online because they can’t gamble on (new) stock, and as a consequence supply on demand, a slower process than online.

    - Blogs (this one??) driving traffic online over Christmas, not one person mentioned Road on here last month in their hour of need when commenting on prices etc. A shame.

    - The indies are goosed, many more will close before summer, they haven’t a prayer as the horse has well and truly bolted a long time ago. If you have a genuine interest in saving them buy an album tomorrow.

    - In the interest of balance, Pinnacle and Road accounted for 3/4 jobs. I spent a lot of time in Road, over the last 6 months it looked bleak. Its a real shame. However the 100+ people who worked for Zavvi had their jobs saved by HMV. A good news story in a month of shite news.

    Comment by Peter
    36.
    January 20, 2009
    9:52 pm

    although this is slightly off the subject, in that it does not relate directly to the sustainability of record stores,
    one way of documenting, sustaining and progressing irish independent music would be a government funded music archive. irish traditional music already has such a facility so why not have one that encompasses indie, electro etc? road already has an amazing collection of photographs, music (all of which is already excellently described/catologued in detail by dave and julie) not to mention contacts within the industry/scene. such a space could cater for exhibitions, gigs and a store. with all these degrees in pop (see last weeks culture magazine) such a facility for research could in the future easily find a market. also, i believe many bands would like their paraphernalia properly catalogued, stored and made accessible to the public. they would become part of irish music history. as a working archivist i’ve been toying with this idea for a long time but have always seen it as a long term prospect due to other commitments but it would be tragic if all the independent record shops closed and their holdings were lost forever.

    Comment by mayo man
    37.
    January 20, 2009
    10:10 pm

    @ Eamon in post no.1. There’s the very Fopp-like E2 Music in Mullingar at the moment doing exactly that. New(ish) releases for under a tenner, plenty of rare and hard-to-find back catalogue for a fiver or below, ex-stock from the majors, remainders and loads of genuine “how the fuck is that priced so low” bargains from established acts. For example, most of the Can back-catalogue, as re-released by Mute and priced over 20 quid in Dublin and everywhere else for that matter: all for a fiver. Loads of old limited edition stuff and compilations too, as well as cheap as chips books and DVDs. Apparently they’re planning on expanding the chain similar to the original Fopp model in the UK and no, I don’t work there.

    Comment by Hot Lunch
    38.
    January 20, 2009
    10:14 pm

    Oh, and the sale on in Zhivago in Galway at the moment is just savage. I hadn’t been in the Shop St one until Sunday morning and have to say it was the most pleasant few hours I’ve spent in a record shop in a long, long time. Loads of bargains, great stock of CD’s, DVD’s, books, memorabilia etc and, at the back, a great big toy shop so there was loads of families milling about. The only thing missing was coffee, booze or both.

    Comment by Hot Lunch
    39.
    January 21, 2009
    2:15 am
    40.
    January 21, 2009
    9:15 am

    As always, interesting comments, thanks people

    Colly - yeah, retail changes to reflect changes in what customers are looking for. Problem is that there seems to be a very limited customer base for what Road was offering - and I can’t see any Irish indie act having the audience to warrant the kind of high-quality package you’re quite rightly pointing to.

    Dave - I dont think you are alone in that

    Noise - I’m completely puzzled by this and no, from the brief online research I did last night, commerical rents in Groningen are not dirt cheap. Maybe the Dutch prefer to support their local shops? 2 of the 4 shops were Road-like operations, one was the garage rock emporium and the other was a cross between Sounds of the Universe and Fopp

    Peter - I love the ostrich-like tendancy of people in any sector under pressure, like yourself, to blame the media. So it’s all the fault of blogs like this and journalists like me that people are looking for value for money and that the bricks and mortars shops like Road could not respond to this? It’s all our fauilt that a sector with an outdated businss model is in trouble? It’s all our fault - love this one - because we’re doing our job and writing enthusiastically about music? It’s all our fault for not having a pop at suppliers (you obviously don’t read this blog, for a start, very closely)? It’s all our fault that these suppliers prefer to engage in an old-fashioned PR campaign making customers wait weeks and weeks before they get their hands on the music? It’s all our fault that there are sites out there where you can illegally download a full album not due for release for months? It’s all our fault for pointing out that prices are cheaper are online and that some shops have engaged in serious bouts of price gouging?

    Dude, get real. We know what has happened - that’s as clear as can be. If everyone just compiled a blame report like you did rather than seeking positive solutions - which is what this blog post was looking for and which you have offered zilch - we might as well all go home and pull the duvet over our head. Stop moaning - no wonder people have no respect for the retail sector if that’s the attitude adopted by their supporters. You have not addressed ANY of the points in the post above but just grumbled and griped and moaned. We’re after SOLUTIONS not someone blaming everyone for what happened.

    mayo man - the government has absolutely no interest in popular music - and no money to do anything like that. we’re on our own, tonto

    Hot Lunch - that E2 place sounds brilliant and it looks like theyre looking to expand alright - http://www.e2music.ie/property.php

    K - Domino were one of Road’s big allies when they started out, supplying them with product from the get-go

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    41.
    January 21, 2009
    9:39 am

    I think Peter was just highlighting the irony of a blogger who does little but undermine local retail blogging about solutions for local retail. It’s not a route I would have taken but I can certainly see his point and your way over the top defensive reply just reinforces the point.

    As far as solutions go - HMV have transferred a huge amount of their focus onto the games sector and it has paid dividends. Retailers lacking in the space, budget or manpower to manage such a change in business need to look to added value on what they sell - they need to seek out what it is that can seperate them from the online music retailers & Tescos of this world - LPs & 7″s, ltd editions, giving away merchandise with new releases if they can get their hands on it - even a badge or a postcard anything to make the purchase unique. They certainly need to up their customer service game so that customers know that they are talking to an expert who can send them down some musical alley they never anticipated before walking into the shop. In short, you need to make people need retail again. And you also need to have the financial clout to weather the storm while you change your business model.

    Comment by Vinnie
    42.
    January 21, 2009
    9:40 am

    I have a lot of sympathy for Peter@35’s point about suppliers. It’s always been a matter of awareness, which I assume is why he’s pointing the figure at journalists. It’s something I’ve banged on about before, as someone who’s straddled those two lines of work. When I was a retailer, there was very little public awareness of dealer prices to selling prices, especially on back catalogue product, never mind a store’s crippling overheads, most particularly recruiting quality staff at just above the minimum wage. Pick any leisure/luxury product you like (clothes, sports gear, jewellery), they were all making huge margins between dp and selling price; with music, it was always a struggle to make 30%. In addition, record stores had to contend with chart product being sold by supermarkets as loss leaders. I always wanted to give away free bread and milk with chart albums just to be stroppy. When downloading began in earnest, music and CDs themselves were further devalued in the eyes of the music-buying public, who were always, in my experience, entirely unforgiving. This is why stores like HMV, Virgin and Tower were forced to sell bloody stupid toys, they were the only items that made any profit. And still there was whingeing from people who wanted stores to retain A) choice and B) somehow, competitive pricing. It’s unworkable; the general public has spoken and it simply doesn’t want record shops anymore.

    Comment by Johnnie
    43.
    January 21, 2009
    9:53 am

    @peter 35

    excellent analysis, pretty spot on

    Comment by Leigh O'Gorman
    44.
    January 21, 2009
    10:03 am

    Vinnie - So it’s way over the top to point out just how ridiculous it is to blame journalists and bloggers for this? And where exactly have I undermined the local retail sector? I think readers without vested interests like yourself already know that you can get CDs and DVDs way, way cheaper online than in shops like yours. And readers also know the degree to which high prices have acted as a tiurn-off to people shopping here - this applies right across the board in every retail sector. The good days are over.

    Moving onto your solution, that’s a really good idea because bad customer service is one of things which turns people off in record shops and customer service is one of those things which can mark out an indie shop as different and warrant taking the time and making the effort to visit. One good start might be an end to the sneery, condescending tone adopted by many record store clerks and a realisation that the customer is right.

    But as you also point out, “you also need to have the financial clout to weather the storm while you change your business model” and this is where many of the existing shops will come a-cropper. Maybe what is needed is a whole new set of investors into the sector? Shops which are run by enthusiasts and are open by appointment?

    johnnie - good points too, especially the fact that unforgiving nature of the the music-buying public. Yes, price does pay a huge factor in all of this - look at the reaction to the pre-Xmas post here about where stuff could be got at the best price. The problem for the stores, as Vinnie has pointed out above, is that they can no longer monetise the expertise that they have because these days, with the internet, everyone can be that expert. So where do the stores go? Maybe, as all the solutions offered so far have it, they take a leaf out of how some travel agents now operate and charge for that advice or those recommendations? Again, just a suggestion

    Leigh - yeah but all that analysis has been done already, Peter is offering no solutions.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    45.
    January 21, 2009
    10:09 am

    Jim, way to denensive , I’ve worked for Zavviv/Virgin for years, the HMV story has gone unnoticed. Peter @ 35’s point about suppliers/media is spot on in my opinion. I spent some time in Road over the years, I’d say if you asked Dave about suppliers he’d have the same opinion. Vinnie and Johnnie @41 and @42 are spot on too.

    Good blog, no need to throw the toys when somebody has a pop at the media. Its a fact.

    Comment by Mark J
    46.
    January 21, 2009
    10:13 am

    Mark J - I think like a lot of other people that you are missing the point of this post - we’re looking for SOLUTIONS, not more lengthy moans and people blaming journalists/bloggers/hurling fans for all this. What we want is what Vinnie @ 41 has provided - some possible solutions to this mess. Sure, he also had a pop at me (like he always does to keep me in my place) but unlike Peter @ 35 and yourself, he also provided some ideas.

    As someone who has worked in the retail sector yourself, what are YOUR solutions? Or is it just easier to tell someone to stop throwing the toys around and join the Greek chorus about the media?

    And what do you mean ignore the HMV story - this was covered in this paper last week

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0115/1231738224114.html

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    47.
    January 21, 2009
    10:23 am

    @ Jim

    I was going to jot something down, but I only ended up with a throbbing headache…

    Comment by Leigh O'Gorman
    48.
    January 21, 2009
    10:26 am

    it could have something to do with influential blogs encouraging people to seek cheaper avenues online!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/ontherecord/2008/12/16/on-the-records-pricewatch-esque-christmas-special/

    Comment by billy lyons
    49.
    January 21, 2009
    10:29 am

    Billy - so that post and this blog are responsible for the death of the music retail sector in Ireland? I know I have an ego but please, bro’, lets keep things in perspective here. Problems had set in long before I ever started writing about them.

    As someone who spends all the childrens allowance money on vinyl, Billy, what are YOUR solutions?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    50.
    January 21, 2009
    10:31 am

    “So it’s way over the top to point out just how ridiculous it is to blame journalists and bloggers for this?”

    Your reply was way over the top and I think that any fair-minded reader would agree and was anchored with the sneery tone you are lambasting record store clerks for having.

    “I think readers without vested interests like yourself already know that you can get CDs and DVDs way, way cheaper online than in shops like yours.”

    So on one hand you raise the battle cry for solutions for indie retailers and with the other you make the sweeping generalization that immediate value for money is the only criteria by which you decide where to buy music. And to correct you Jim, you can get some CDs way, way cheaper online.

    “And where exactly have I undermined the local retail sector?”

    I’ll just name one instance – accusing local record stores of “price gouging” and making disingenuous comparisons with online retailers when you (a) have absolutely no idea what the local retailer paid for that product – it might be the fairest price they could reasonably charge and calling it “price gouging” is a very negative and mean-spirited assumption (b) dont mention postage as a cost in the online purchase and (c) used the freakish currency fluctuation as a further price baton to beat local retail with. That’s a very nuanced rinsing of a few facts to make local shops seem greedy and anachronistic when neither might be the case. Don’t get me wrong – Im not suggesting people should pay more for something out of blind sentimentality and nor am I suggesting that local retail does not have instances of “price gouging” but to assume the worst intentions is just plain irresponsible.

    Comment by Vinnie
    51.
    January 21, 2009
    10:41 am

    Vinnie - you make the sweeping generalization that immediate value for money is the only criteria by which you decide where to buy music

    Not true. To the best of my knowledge I have never said this. If you can point this out, I’ll happily respond but I decide to buy music going on where the music happens to be at that time. That could be in Tower, Road, City Discs or online. Price is one consideration but there are many others.

    Don’t get me wrong – Im not suggesting people should pay more for something out of blind sentimentality and nor am I suggesting that local retail does not have instances of “price gouging” but to assume the worst intentions is just plain irresponsible.

    Again, I have never assumed this. I dont for a minute tar all retailers with the same brush - again, if I have, please point this out to me. There’s a hell of a difference between, say, Tower and City Discs. Some push prices way higher than they should because they can (or could) get away with it - others set a fairer price becaue they know it will lead to sales. No ssumptions there at all, vinnie

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    52.
    January 21, 2009
    10:45 am

    Is there a solution?

    It’s simply cheaper online to buy records than to go to Road Records or any other indy store.

    If you want to hear local Irish music, blogs such as On The Record, Una and Nailler are doing more than a good job on that front with myspace links etc. That’s not a criticism.

    Road’s USP disappeared.

    Do emerging bands care more about gettings hits on their myspace over getting a CD in an indy?

    Regarding the Dutch music stores, is there any evidence to suggest that they are supported by the music buying Dutch public other than a busy looking shop?

    Comment by nerraw
    53.
    January 21, 2009
    11:00 am

    nerraw - Is there a solution?

    Well, some of the comments above would have you believe that it would be all OK if we stopped people blogging about where to buy CDs/DVDs……

    Regarding the Dutch music stores, is there any evidence to suggest that they are supported by the music buying Dutch public other than a busy looking shop?

    I talked to 2 of the shop owners about this and they said that while Eurosonic visitors over the weekend obviously give the shops a bounce, their business is OK-to-good all year-round.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    54.
    January 21, 2009
    11:22 am

    It is obvious that the solution lies in reducing cost of shops. One way to do this is reduce stock. If shops, similar to Road, had a license to reproduce CDs and prints from these artists instead of buying the physical stock a legitimate business could be maintained. But this only introduces the problem of piracy….

    Comment by Mar
    55.
    January 21, 2009
    11:47 am

    @ 48 - no not responsible but contribute to it’s demise.

    unfortunately i have no solutions. the industry shot itself in the foot when the inked dried on that first deal with the supermarkets.

    Comment by billy lyons
    56.
    January 21, 2009
    11:52 am

    billy - no not responsible but contribute to it’s demise……the industry shot itself in the foot when the inked dried on that first deal with the supermarkets.

    In fairness, that’s just one entry on a long fucking list. The retail sector itself is also part of the problem.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    57.
    January 21, 2009
    12:03 pm

    “The retail sector itself is also part of the problem.”

    Im not diasagreeing with you but please do elaborate. If we’re talking about solutions we might as well talk about problems.

    Comment by Vinnie
    58.
    January 21, 2009
    12:06 pm

    Vinnie - supermarkets are part of the retail sector - or they were the last time i looked

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    59.
    January 21, 2009
    12:07 pm

    Nerraw @52: “If you want to hear local Irish music, blogs such as On The Record, Una and Nailler are doing more than a good job on that front with myspace links”

    I’m sorry but I disagree with this completely… These three sources miss a very large amount of good independent Irish releases that Road was one of the only places to give an outlet to…

    Start thinking outside Blogs please… It’s getting a bit annoying…

    Comment by Ally
    60.
    January 21, 2009
    12:07 pm

    The obvious solution would seem to be to move all the shops to Holland.

    Comment by Dave
    61.
    January 21, 2009
    12:09 pm

    Huh? I think wires must be crossed. That wasnt what I was asking at all. No bother.

    Comment by Vinnie
    62.
    January 21, 2009
    12:21 pm

    @ 60.

    or move holland here

    Comment by jim Comic
    63.
    January 21, 2009
    12:43 pm

    Ah blogs are just lone waves on an ocean of promotion. Sure people can follow links and have a listen, check out the sound and the hope is they’ll maybe catch an upcoming gig or pick up the CD the next time you’re out. The Internet’s useless for really enjoying music: you can’t stream your favourite band when you’re wandering through frosty woods or sitting in the launderette, Irish music is difficult to fileshare or steal unless you’re talking a few lone profile tunes and above and beyond all, there is nothing so nice as getting home with your brown paper bag with those few EPs/albums you’ve really looked forward to, making a cuppa, feeding the cat, finding your warm rug and sitting back to relax and enjoy, without a modem or crappy Argos swivel desk chair that offsets yer lumbago….

    I’m still thinking about the us vs them debate Jim. I’ve got absolutely no idea why the Dutch stores prosper more than ours.

    Comment by Naomi
    64.
    January 21, 2009
    12:51 pm

    @59 maybe not those three sources, but most most of what I bought in Road in the past year I heard from the Indie Hour blog/radio show - e.g. So Cow, Chequerboard and RSAG (that last one was from here as well though). Road was the place to go to get them, after I’d heard them elsewhere.

    as for hits on Myspace, surely that’s still a means to the end of selling a CD.

    on the issue of downloading, I’d venture to say it doesn’t apply to smaller Irish acts… the filesharing etc. just not there in my experience. Plus quite a few of the CDs released this year had excellent presentation to make the physical product worthwhile. Obviously it would have impacted on the non-Irish releases that were subsidising the Irish indie, though.

    Comment by gabbagabbahey
    65.
    January 21, 2009
    12:54 pm

    Not to be accused of lacking solutions but I will say that working in a bookshop before Christmas the amount of crap I got over sterling was highly irritating. People seemed to think that stock should have been repriced daily or weekly depending on the exchange rate rather than reflect the price the store paid for the stock. People came in with play.com prices in mind but needed to buy it in a shop because they didn’t have enough time before Christmas leading to whining on at staff who just stuck the price tags on. At least the book trade haven’t been been made digitally redundant by downloading (legal or illegal), people still fetishise the book as object sufficiently.
    Music as object is simply not valued anymore by the majority of punters, I don’t think that’s controversial. and music retail hasn’t managed to make the space the revenue generator. Don’t know if that’s even possible in Dublin except in a flea market set-up.

    The Food Co-Op on Newmarket is decent, don’t know what the flea market on a Sunday is like but I’d imagine that is the sort of place specialist music may find a home.

    Now that the boom is gone and the developers are bankrupt, can someone put a lick of paint on the Iveagh market and re-open it’s doors? Connect it up with old Mother Redcaps and you’d have a lovely spot.

    Comment by Major Alfonso
    66.
    January 21, 2009
    1:15 pm

    There’s a lot of finger pointing going on here folks. As someone who spends two or three hours every day in record shops I’ve seen a pattern emerging over the last few years.

    Irish people bang on about their love of music etc but in reality there’s a very small hardcore group of people who go out of their way to find (new and old) interesting music. The majority of people are pretty happy to but their Arcade Fire and Bruce Springsteen albums or tickets and leave it at that.

    I can count at least five record shops that have gone out of business in the last couple of years in Dublin. Let me tell you that if Road are going out of business then the remaining shops are most likely soiling their pants at this stage.

    I really lament the way things. I live for music. I also live for the vinyl format. That’s not to say I don’t buy CD’s or MP3’s but I’ll always favour the vinyl format. The record shops in Dublin supplement their incomes in various ways. If All City didn’t sell spray paint they’d have closed years ago. I’ve no idea how City Discs or either Freebird store survives in Dublin. Beatfinder supllement their income through a vinyl to mp3 conversion service.

    How do you make a million euro through your records store? Starting with about ten million is usually the answer. As a business proposition, the independent record store is on its knees. I’ve noticed that the stock held in all of the stores has been dwindling steadily over the past ten years. Choice has become more limited and in the age of instant gratification there’s easier and cheaper ways to get the music. However, as we’ve seen with Ryanair, price and instant gratification does not equate to satisfied customers.

    What’s happening with Road Records is a reflection of what is happening in the wider society. As long as people are satisfied with shopping in Tesco at the expense of their local shop then there’s going to be less and less choice. In order for society to function there has to be a proportionate distribution of wealth. That means that sometimes we must compromise on price in order to keep the greatest choice available to us. That means spending the extra one or two euro in your local bookshop, butcher, record store rather than putting it into the pocket of some large business that has no idea who you are except for the information provided to them on your clubcard form.

    We reap what we sow.

    Comment by Matt Vinyl
    67.
    January 21, 2009
    1:51 pm

    Sorry for annoying you Ally, but I just gave three examples of where you can find links to new Irish artists which I find are a good source. I never said it was exhaustive. Merely an example of perhaps why people don’t bother buying new Irish releases from Road when the same material is free online with numerous blogs providing such links.

    Comment by nerraw
    68.
    January 21, 2009
    2:09 pm

    In relation to Groningen, I was lucky to spend a year living there on the erasmus/student exchange programme. Clubs/Venues like Vera and Simplon were heavily subsidised by the Dutch government; when I was there (1994) bands like Jon Spencer, Pavement and Beck played for 10 guilders(Around £4)
    (In relation to the record stores, Elpee was a great store down from Vera.) Dutch commercial buildings are very strictly rent controlled so their overheads are far less.

    The student population didn’t actually go to Vera that much and I think, it comes down to loyalty which may be the problem in Dublin. In Italy or Spain for example, you can find small cities or towns with record stores which sell exclusively one genre like rockabilly or 60’s garage music and they survive because the loacls make an effort.

    People have mentioned New York. Even for a city that size, record stores are closing, downsizing or moving to Brooklyn all the time like Mondo Kims. Even somewhere like Other Music is heavily dependant on online sales.

    It’s too easy, me included, to sit at a pc and order music online as it’s cheaper and I can’t be arsed going into town.

    Comment by overfriendly concierge
    69.
    January 21, 2009
    2:18 pm

    If Waterstones can have a cafe in it why not Tower or Freebird?

    I know from Waterstones that just being in the shop longer will encourage you to buy more.

    Comment by Anthony
    70.
    January 21, 2009
    2:23 pm

    Jim, the solution is in the main problem, suppliers, and their dealer prices. Peter @35 didn’t blame the media. What he was saying is that the media sometimes doesn’t help matters.

    Most seem to agree with that point, mid price albums should be less than 8 quid, new albums should be less than a tenner, suppliers seem to play ball with the supermarkets on price, and not the independent shops. That is a major problem.

    Comment by Mark J
    71.
    January 21, 2009
    3:14 pm

    Concierge - Elpee is still going strong and you’re right, a shop like Magic Buzz has its dedicated audience who wil come from other towns because they have the stock. But there’s also Plato which, like Elpee, is a road-like indie store, and the shop next door to Magic Buzz, Hemmes, also has a similar stock, so there’s definitely the business in that town for all those shops

    Interestingly, the guy in Elpee was telling me, though, that very few Dutch people pay with credit cards - they prefer cash. Wonder what online sales are like there?

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    72.
    January 21, 2009
    3:21 pm

    You didn’t annoy me Nerraw @67… I just don’t believe the blogging community in Ireland is very wide in their music tastes at all… for every RSAG and Chequerboard, there are 5 other Irish acts that are never mentioned (or linked to) but that Road were absolutely faithful to…

    On a different matter, the bottom line is Matt Vinyl’s last paragraph @66… For those of us that are slightly older, this resonates even more…

    Comment by Ally
    73.
    January 21, 2009
    4:21 pm

    oh by the way, the following irish bands have each donated a few copies of their current albums to raod with all proceeds going to d&j…

    so if you want to help, no excuses… some very good music here:

    Moutpiece
    Decal
    The Jimmy Cake
    The Dudley Corporation
    The Spook Of The Thirteenth Lock
    Land Lovers
    My Brother Woody
    Large Mound
    The Bastard Rain
    The Hollows
    Stoat
    The Holy Ghost Fathers

    Comment by Ally
    74.
    January 21, 2009
    4:33 pm

    sure, after looking at the thumped thread, there’s loads more too:

    http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=69804

    Comment by Ally
    75.
    January 21, 2009
    4:43 pm

    there’s a lot more than that on the list ally
    ;)

    Comment by Leigh O'Gorman
    76.
    January 21, 2009
    4:57 pm

    I’ve followed this debate with great interest over the last few days and, with the greatest respect to Road and the acts who’re giving up revenue from sales, isnt this like closing the door after the horse has bolted? Were was everyone when Road really needed the dig-out last year? Why does it take a closure for people to realise what’s going on?

    And just how much revenue can really be made from selling 6 Jimmy Cake or Decal CDs or any Irish indie release? The shop’s main source of income probably came from non-Irish sales.

    The problem for Road and all small shops in Ireland is that the rent has gone up and up and up - unless you own the store, you’re really just working for the landlord.

    Comment by Jack the Lad
    77.
    January 21, 2009
    5:28 pm

    @76

    Fantastic way to miss the point Jack.

    It has nothing to do with “saving” Road, but everything to do with respect, appreciation and giving something back while we can.

    As I have said in other places, Road were the only people that ever chose to stock my own recordings and for this I am happy to make a loss on this stock if to give (just a little back).

    I don’t think there is anyone deluded enough to thinking that selling a few extra EP’s will save the store.

    Comment by Leigh O'Gorman
    78.
    January 21, 2009
    5:31 pm

    “As I have said in other places, Road were the only people that ever chose to stock my own recordings”

    And I’m sure other Irish acts will say the same thing but as Road’s closure shows, you can’t build a successful business on Irish indie who-the-hell-are-they releases.

    I know Road was “more than just a business” but at the end of the day, the landlord is not going to be happy to take Stoat albums in lieu of rent. You need money to pay for stuff like that and you dont make money selling lo-fi Irish releases.

    Comment by Jack the Lad
    79.
    January 21, 2009
    5:38 pm

    Of course you don’t Jack…

    And as Leigh just mentioned, the point of my post was for information, respect and appreciation… Nothing more…

    Well maybe also to show Nerraw that there are a lot of bands out there that don’t get a mention from the blogging community…

    Comment by Ally
    80.
    January 21, 2009
    5:40 pm

    “or move holland here”

    good call,
    then we’d also benefit from U2’s publishing tax revenue and we could then save some more banks

    Comment by OC
    81.
    January 21, 2009
    5:44 pm

    @78 What exactly is your point? Seriously, all you’ve done is to state the blindingly obvious a couple of times and then got some facts in a bitter muddle. A buddle.

    Comment by Vinnie
    82.
    January 21, 2009
    5:44 pm

    “there are a lot of bands out there that don’t get a mention from the blogging community”

    Ally - you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about this. Ever think about setting up a blog to do that? Or do you know in your heart of hearts - just like those no-hoper bands - that there really isn’t an audience for that kind of thing?

    Comment by Blogwatch
    83.
    January 21, 2009
    5:46 pm

    OK, OK, this is all getting a little confusing and off-topic even for this blog

    Only comments about this thread - and I think this thread was about solutions for the current retail woes if memory serves me right - from now on please.

    No more stating the obvious or attacks on other posters either

    Thanks

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    84.
    January 21, 2009
    7:43 pm

    aaaahh now jim,
    everyone knows that if there were no backbiting, spitefulness and/or pointless attacks lain down, then the blogosphere would swallow itself up and implode first thing in the morning

    Comment by Leigh O'Gorman
    85.
    January 21, 2009
    9:30 pm

    (coming late to discussion)
    nice to see the love for monorail here. sure the cafe’s nice as a hangout and it probably does contribute a bit to trade but for me the success of the record shop is down to dep and stephen and the rest of the staff’s passion for music and a core of customers going there regularly to buy records.

    i think glasgow has a slightly more robust and diverse market for records than dublin. that said, i haven’t lived in dublin for about 8 years but i don’t think i can remember road being as busy (or big, or well stocked) as monorail.

    there’s also the fantastic rubadub in glasgow which is probably the best and friendliest electronic music shop i’ve come across. any time i’m through in Glasgow i try to make sure i have thirty or forty quid to throw their way. personally i’d prefer to give the money to these shops and I hope that’s enough to keep them going.

    the same goes for avalanche and underground solushn in edinburgh, apart from monorail none of these places have bars, just friendly polite helpful staff and a great selection (and plenty of second hand stock for digging).

    i agree wholeheartedly with mattvinyl’s sentiments, i can’t understand how people think buying records from amazon/juno and other enormocorps can do anything but contribute to the death of the little guy. i appreciate it costs a few quid more but to me that’s worth more than a days busfare.

    Comment by clom
    86.
    January 21, 2009
    10:06 pm

    understood Jim, but what’s the rules on attacks on other posters who state the obvious, ( and with a sneering pompous tone) surely we can get the odd dig in? sorry, certain irresponsible self-publicising hack’s know-all defeatism gets under my skin. (not you of course JC)

    have to say though, one of my first emotions on hearing the (genuinely shocking) news was regret at not having spent more money in there. it’s an impossible thought, but if i’d had any idea that they were in imminent danger, i really would have turned off and spent a fiver or tenner everytime i walked down George’s St. and i think that’s what the good folks on thumped are trying to tap into - it’s probably doomed to go nowhere but if you dont try…

    cant help feeling we’re going to be feeling a lot of emotions like that in the coming months (and years maybe), with regard to other businesses of all sorts. so i loved how big Dave Road was in signing off by telling people to make sure to spend in other small record shops so they dont follow suit

    another emotion… ‘but i dont want other small record shops, i want Road’. god it’s all too sad

    Comment by Deeko
    87.
    January 22, 2009
    2:01 am

    While Road Records will be greatly missed by all (including myself) who went there, I think the reason for its demise is not that complicated. Location, location, location.

    Irish people are huge consumers of music. However, in the cities, most people tend to live in the suburbs. City centre locations are not great spots for record stores unless the city centre is small (like in Cork for example). That was a key problem for Road.

    Consider high rents, expensive parking for customers, the fact that it was not that easy to find for people not from Dublin, close proximity of competition and the fact that it was a fair distance away from where majority of its customer’s live.

    The recession will have many casualties but it will certainly not be the death of the indie record store. It will just facilitate a reinvention of these stores.

    Comment by Mark McAvoy
    88.
    January 22, 2009
    9:26 am

    With such heated debate over the last few days, I have had slight reservations about commenting but a thought dawned on me this morning.

    Jim has been trying to tease from us some fresh ideas as to what the new retail model might be, looking for alternatives, but perhaps we already have it?

    As good intentioned as we all are to a physical location to peruse music, is there really anything wrong with moving all our music purchasing to the internet?

    We are getting music at the cheapest price, everybody gets paid, camaraderie for the buyer is still gained via blogs/music sites, and artists have the potential to reach everyone in the world as opposed to the 200 regular punters who drop into a solitary shop.

    I know that the Road crew were operating the shop out of love for music but perhaps they can see out their vocation online? With much lower overheads, you could potentially run a business from your home.

    I know that smaller local artists miss that open door to get their music out to the community but perhaps they need to think on a grander scale. What we need is a more sophisticated centralised website for irish artists that will mean maximum exposure at home and abroad. Instead of buying in all the music perhaps the website could be more of a promotional outlet (for a fee), with a generic buying system, the individual acts could handle the p&p.

    Websites like Not Lame, which specialises in powerpop, have proven that you can find your public by association. Ireland has a proven track record in the music world. Irish abroad, discerning listeners and the industry are always looking to Ireland to hear what’s coming up.

    Have I finally lost the plot or does anyone think this could have legs?

    Comment by James D
    89.
    January 22, 2009
    10:08 am

    I dont have the facts, but I’ve heard before at a FMC seminar that we aren’t actually huge purchasers of music and never were, as radio and live gigs are so strong.

    Other factors that havent been mentioned much are the volume of releases and i tunes availability pre -physical release.

    But as we’re talking about solutions,
    (it’s not easily done and I’m not sure how)
    but maybe Irish retailers need to incorporate more into the live model, as the appetite for live music is still penomenal,
    check Dublin on 1st March, (a Sun night !!)

    Snow Patrol - The O2
    Pete Rock - Pod
    Amadou & Mariam - Vicar St
    Franz Ferdinand - Olympia
    Hockey & Passion Pit - Whelans

    Comment by OC
    90.
    January 22, 2009
    10:41 am

    (sorry in advance to those of you who are sick of seeing this link)
    Full list of bands whose albums are on sale in Road and who are leaving the proceeds to Road:
    http://sweetoblivionlovesmusic.blogspot.com/2009/01/thumped-aint-for-prcks.html

    I’m also at a loss to explain why it is easier for many European independent record stores to survive than Irish shops, although it could be a combination of less buying online and cheaper rent. That said, I was in Brussels a few years ago and visited an amazing niche record store that would find it hard to survive in Ireland - it had at least two rooms, one for music and one that was a gallery/performance space, and didn’t sell any ‘mainstream’ or commercial music/items. But Brussels is known for its extremely high prices for CDs - I think there was even some investigation into it a few years ago. Yet this shop seemed to be doing well.
    Now, if only I could remember the name…!

    Comment by sweetoblivion
    91.
    January 22, 2009
    11:59 am

    As a blogger (who admittedly doesn’t cover a huge amount of Irish music), I don’t think there is a huge amount of piracy involved when it comes to Irish bands. For a start, you are not going to find limewire dripping with files of yer typical upstairs in Whelans act. Also, if you put an MP3 up without an act’s permission you are pretty much guaranteed to get an email demanding you take it down or even accosted by the act in question in person. (it’s a small scene).

    The problem does not lie with blogs. Blogs are just people wittering on about their own personal tastes. Some of us, like Nialler take it upon us to actively promote new music. But it is not an obligation. To even suggest that would be absurd. To believe that most of your average Irish music fans read blogs is laughable, though self-obsessed as we are, we might like to think so. Anyway, if anything, blogs have added to an interest in left-field Irish music. For example all those bands in the Richter collective would surely agree that positive mentions on blog’s such as Naomi’s have led to people paying up for their gigs and perhaps buying EPs at them.

    The problem is economic and is reflected everywhere in the retail sector. Irish music fans pockets are deep enough when it came to your Arcade Fires, U2s and Damien Rices. These are the meat and two veg big selling bands. Now that the economy is banjaxed its fairly obvious that the niche bands who relied on Road as Road relied on them could not keep the shop afloat.

    James D offers the best solution I think. I’m no economist but I think the internet is the way forward. I know it is not the same pleasure as browsing a record shop, but the idea of making an appointment online to flick through stock in someone’s back room might be the closest we come to the record browsing experience in the near future.

    Comment by Darragh
    92.
    January 22, 2009
    12:10 pm

    i am popping in to road later today to relieve them of a good bit of irish stock…

    and after that it will unfortunately be bye bye to julie collins and hello to judy collins who i will be going to see in whelans next tuesday…

    Comment by Ally
    93.
    January 22, 2009
    12:24 pm

    The last few days I’ve been looking into the chances of making my long considered idea of a record stall a reality. Still trying to find out what distributors would consider a worthwhile order before selling wholesale though. Hoping to carry stuff that you wouldn’t neccessarily find in Road or Tower, probably a good few LPs and CDrs made in limited numbers, also some favourites that you would find but put a focus on the quality (imo at least). There may very well be little to NO market for it to be honest. For example I imagine only Ally off here (no offense to anyone else) may be interested but then again may very easily not be.

    One thing I’ve found for sure is that I’ll be dependant on other like minded stall owners to attract any kind of footfall. Paying for a hot location in town isn’t an option. Buying a premises or an finding an alturistic landlord that wont up rents at the first sign of moderate success will also be vital if anything long term will last.

    I expect that if I do go ahead with anything I’m likely to lose whatever money i put in. So I’m hopping my financial losses will go more on stock than on overheads.

    One thing is for certain though, if i end up ordering any stock from anywhere there will be some form of online outlet. Wheter it be a specific site or an eBay account.

    If anything comes of it, it will be my greatest folly yet.

    Comment by Void
    94.
    January 22, 2009
    1:10 pm

    Jim . If you read my post again, you and your blog were not the target, don’t over estimate your own importance, the media I was having a go at are badly researched articles in Sunday papers, Liveline, morning radio shows etc who actually have a huge listener ship and do impact on sales in a bad way. A two minute rant from a high profile DJ, or 50 negative words in the morning Star/Sun does cause damage. And it doesn’t help that reviews are months in advance, the target there was the monthly mags Uncut etc, not you, your blog, your uncle or anything else. I’d hate to see your reaction if somebody told you Bruce Springsteen is a tad over-rated you’d be rushed to the Mater. Relax. Blogs don’t help for sure sometimes, the couple of hundred who come on here every week and give their opinions aren’t the problem either, well 99.9% of them anyway.

    There are some obvious solutions, open a tidy shop in a nice location, have a regular customer, sell tea and cake as an add on, throw in a pool table/dart board in the corner, fuck it, put a jacuzzi in, put a band on at lunchtime, it’ll have to work no?? the customers would love it??

    No, until you try to stock the shop with music product, and sell it cheap and make a profit, almost impossible, no amount of tea or, €1 a go in the jacuzzi would cover that loss. Your friend in Holland probably has a decent grant to run the place, has cheap rent, trades in a civilised city that has a great public transport that brings his customers into town,, his customers aren’t surrounded by Shopping Centres, Xtra Visions etc his suppliers probably give him good deals and he survives.

    The suppliers here are very bad, and until that changes the above idea for a store will not work anytime soon. The cost of renting a decent sized unit say on Wicklow St is mental money, your controllable costs are huge too, its very very hard to make margin/profit . If you find a cheap unit offside somewhere you won’t get the footfall. If you try and get around the supplier problem by importing cheap stock, the local supplier of that artist will cut any terms you have, it’s a joke. You can only do it for the love of it for so long until the banks come knocking on the door.

    There is a market for a classical music shop in town as there is no competition, there is also a market for a jazz. blues, country, trad outlet, possibly in the same unit as the classical. A place like this could survive offside somewhere, as the customers of these genres are loyal and are not part of the download generation, the independent suppliers of these genres want the business

    The retailers who posted above Vinnie, Mark J, Johnnie agree with most of what I said. Bands will end up selling their new albums at gigs because there won’t be a shop to sell them in, it’ll become part of the ticket price, it’s a bad situation. Retailers are not totally without blame, there are many examples of poorly run stores over the years. Just hope the ones left can find their way out of a big hole.

    For the record, I don’t work in a shop, or for a retailer. I have done, but not anymore, its a mugs game…

    Comment by Peter
    95.
    January 22, 2009
    1:12 pm

    Jim @49. If you read my post again, you and your blog were not the target, don’t over estimate your own importance, the media I was having a go at are badly researched articles in Sunday papers, Liveline, morning radio shows etc who actually have a huge listener ship and do impact on sales in a bad way. A two minute rant from a high profile DJ, or 50 negative words in the morning Star/Sun does cause damage. And it doesn’t help that reviews are months in advance, the target there was the monthly mags Uncut etc, not you, your blog, your uncle or anything else. I’d hate to see your reaction if somebody told you Bruce Springsteen is a tad over-rated,…… Blogs don’t help, the couple of hundred who come on here every week and give their opinions aren’t the problem either, well 99.9% of them anyway.

    There are some obvious solutions, open a tidy shop in a nice location, have a regular customer, sell tea and cake as an add on, throw in a pool table/dart board in the corner, fuck it, put a jacuzzi in, put a band on at lunchtime, it’ll have to work no?? the customers would love it??

    No, until you try to stock the shop with music product, and sell it cheap and make a profit, almost impossible, no amount of tea or, €1 a go in the jacuzzi would cover that loss. Your friend in Holland probably has a decent grant to run the place, has cheap rent, trades in a civilised city that has a great public transport that brings his customers into town, his suppliers probably give him good deals and he survives.

    The suppliers here are very bad, and until that changes the above idea for a store will not work anytime soon. The cost of renting a decent sized unit say on Wicklow St is mental money, your controllable costs are huge too, its very very hard to make margin/profit . If you find a cheap unit offside somewhere you won’t get the footfall. If you try and get around the supplier problem by importing cheap stock, the local supplier of that artist will cut any terms you have, it’s a joke. You can only do it for the love of it for so long until the banks come knocking on the door.

    There is a market for a classical music shop in town as there is no competition, there is also a market for a jazz. blues, country, trad outlet, possibly in the same unit as the classical. A place like this could survive offside somewhere, as the customers of these genres are loyal and are not part of the download generation, the independent suppliers of these genres want the business

    The retailers who posted above Vinnie, Mark J, Johnnie agree with most of what I said. Bands will end up selling their new albums at gigs because there won’t be a shop to sell them in, it’ll become part of the ticket price, it’s a bad situation. Retailers are not totally without blame, there are many examples of poorly run stores over the years. Just hope the ones left can find their way out of a big hole.

    For the record, I don’t work in a shop, or for a retailer. I have done, but not anymore, its a mugs game…

    Comment by Peter
    96.
    January 22, 2009
    3:57 pm

    I think the most disappointing comment that Dave made about the wind-up of Road is the fact that bands who stocked CDs there didn’t shop there. It’s a completely fair and true statement and sums up a certain myopia among those of us on the scene. I first became aware of this about two years ago when someone mentioned it to me and have since always made a point of buying my CDs in Road or Tower before I even think of looking elsewhere; I also buy my gift vouchers from those shops, as they have been very supportive of me. Also when i collected money for CDs I always made a point of buying something at the same time.

    Jim - I know yourself and Vinnie don’t really have the right chemistry for whatever reason, but Tower are fantastic to deal with and are a great support to irish bands. Like so much kindness in life, it is done privately and quietly. Simple things like putting your album on the listening post or keeping an instore dates close to a lauch night. It makes almost no money for Tower and give them an admin headache they could do without, but they do it all the same.

    Comment by Mumblin Deaf Ro
    97.
    January 22, 2009
    4:07 pm

    as a record shop owner(rollercoaster kilkenny)i see a lot of issues here.one that hasnt been mentioned is that there is probably more shops than there was maybe 10/15 yrs ago so to a certain degree there is maybe a sense of things getting back to a sensible level.also one of the main problems for us retailers is the presumption that everything is cheaper online.sure you can get stuff cheaper but to a large degree amazon/play etc are the equivalent of the supermarkets selling some items as loss leaders and making money on the other 90%.speaking for myself i know i have 100s of items cheaper than online.its not an easy business now -you need to love music to keep at it but i think some punters will always want physical product and hopefully the indie stores arent dead yet

    Comment by willie
    98.
    January 22, 2009
    4:58 pm

    Jim, its a very childish thing to delete peoples posts, it shows a total lack of respect to everybody who posts on here. Its not surprising though as I hear you have form in this area. I have worked for a long time in retail and distribution, I’m not an expert, but when you attack my post with such misguided venom, then I’ll always respond. I’ll also respond to a blog that has some romantic bullshit notion of music retail that you have haven’t really got a clue about.

    Comment by Peter
    99.
    January 22, 2009
    5:56 pm

    Peter - your comments are above (the three of them). No comments were deleted and, as people know only too well at this stage, I allow a robust exchange of views here (including people slagging me off as you can see from above and other posts on this blog. I don’t take myself that seriously).

    I was out all afternoon and comments are only updated when I got back - On The Record is a one-man operation and the one man often has other things to do (looking for world peace, searching for 09 reg cars, closing down record shops etc etc).

    As for your insinuation you “heard” that I have “form” in this area, I’m intrigued - and I’m sure my readers would be too - to learn more about this. Is there some sort of support group for disgruntled On The Record readers where they gather in a small room to moan about what is said here? Please forward details of the next meeting to me either here or by email - and please use your full name; we’re all friends here. But I do reserve the right not to take such insinuations seriously if the person making the charges prefers to remain anonymous.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    100.
    January 22, 2009
    7:05 pm

    Not to worry @99 , Just assumed it was deleted as it was posted last night, the second post is much the same obviously, as I sent it again this afternoon. You can delete either 94 or 95, as they are much the same. A robust exchange is good, sounds like pub talk most of the time, but sure thats blogs for you. All in a days work.

    Comment by Peter
    101.
    January 22, 2009
    8:02 pm

    So your man Peter folds like a cheap suit when asked to back up his allegations. This blog is the best entertainment online this side of playing poker

    Back to the topic at hand - was in Road today and it was very sad to see the depleted stock on the shelves. Sad in that it should have happened months ago.

    Comment by Blogwatch
    102.
    January 22, 2009
    8:37 pm

    Step one, Paranoid Peter makes sinister allegations about deleted comments and how he has heard it happens all the time

    Step two, his comments appear - not once, not twice but three times

    Step three, blogger politely asks him about these allegations

    Step four, Paranoid Peter mumbles something about “pub talk” and sulks off with his pint.

    This is better than Eastenders

    Comment by Vinny (Not Vinnie)
    103.
    January 23, 2009
    12:14 am

    I will never tire of people using a blog’s comment facility to complain about blogs.

    Comment by UnaRocks
    104.
    January 23, 2009
    12:24 am

    “sounds like pub talk most of the time, but sure thats blogs for you.”

    sounds like you’re the one who has been doing the drinking, man, and has had to back down when asked to provide the facts

    Like una said, I also love blogs when haters use them to show why they hate them.

    Comment by billy
    105.
    January 23, 2009
    8:57 am

    Hi, my name is Paul and I have worked in a number of record shops in Groningen and Amsterdam. I stumbled on this debate and have read the comments with great interest. When I was in Dublin last year, I shopped in Road Records and am sad to hear of its demise.

    The comments from the poster called Peter above about record shops getting grants, cheap rents and good deals from suppliers made me laugh because it is complete nonsense. This person obviously does not know what they are talking about. Dutch record shops do not get grants, our rents are the same as any other store and our suppliers are not charities. I think the reason why we can support so many record stores is the same reason as why we can support so many other small shops. The Dutch people realised a long time ago that we had to support our own and that means buying your CDs and records from the local shops. If you don’t do it, the shops - and the employees - won’t be there in the future. It has nothing to do with grants, rents or deals.

    Paul

    Comment by Paul from Goningen
    106.
    January 23, 2009
    10:04 am

    Peter @ 100 - my ego is badly hurt by the fact that you are now saying that there is not a little club of bitter middle-aged men meeting to give out about this blog and compare conspiracy theories. Maybe this could be the new model for a record shop?

    Anyway, back on topic - very good piece in today’s Ticket from Sinead Gleeson on Road Records

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/theticket/2009/0123/1232474674418.html

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    107.
    January 23, 2009
    10:46 am

    I think it’s important to remember that Road was an equal opportunities provider for people in local bands. Regardless of your sound or your connections, you always got a great service from Dave and Julie when you brought in stock to tell. They were a gentleman and a lady of the hightest order and I always respected and admired and was a little in awe o that.

    Mumbling Deaf Ro mentioned Tower above but I’ve seen totally different experiences there with staff sneering at bands when they come in to sell their music - yet there was never a problem stocking the music from bands whose members worked in Tower. You would not get that two-faced approach at Road.

    Road cannot and will not be replaced because it was one of a kind. I and many musicians like me in bands who don’t have a profile yet will miss it

    Comment by Band Member
    108.
    January 23, 2009
    11:14 am

    “Mumbling Deaf Ro mentioned Tower above but I’ve seen totally different experiences there with staff sneering at bands when they come in to sell their music ”

    If I ever found staff to be sneering at anyone -bands, customers or even Jim Carroll - there would be whigs on the green and if you were sneered at then I can only apologise and say unequivocally that it’s beyond unacceptable but Im a little confused how you could have seen all of this go on unless you either worked in Tower or were permanently stood at the counter watching all of this go on.

    As for “yet there was never a problem stocking the music from bands whose members worked in Tower.”

    Well that’s just an odd thing to say and doesnt really make any sense.

    Comment by Vinnie
    109.
    January 23, 2009
    11:45 am

    Vinnie - sorry, I am confused, who are you?

    Comment by Band Member
    110.
    January 23, 2009
    1:43 pm

    Just to say i havw always gone to Road Records and bought Irish based music there. I work as a music supervisor and DJ
    in Dublin. I always found them to be very helpful and knowledgeable and a pleasure to deal with. I hope they find happiness in whatever they do next. I would love if they presented a radio show on Phantom Fm or elsewhere to keep the spirit and reputation alive.
    I wish them all the best in the future.
    Aidan (DJ & Music Supervisor)

    Comment by Aidan kavanagh
    111.
    January 24, 2009
    1:17 am

    If I’ve learned anything from this thread in the last few days it’s hang on to your CDs people, especially the crafted, beautiful ones. We’re literally looking at relics of the future.

    Matt’s comment rang so true, along with Paul from Goningen. The people are supporting their own product and in some cases, paying extra for the privilege. With Road, you really got value for money because you knew your purchases were going directly from retailer to band, each sale counted. And they didn’t do it in the big blowup banner of We Do You So Many Favours So You Don’t Have To glacial manner of websites and shopping malls or foist themselves into selling something extra, ever. And it pains me to say it but it seems independent music buyers have chosen to compromise on value for money by cutting out record stores. I’ve never bought anything online but I fess up: I’m bang between a grocer and a Centra and I go to the Centra because the old bastard down the road charged €5.49 on a jar of Kenco for years. Now I can choose Gold Blend *and* every single member of staff is friendly, helpful and surprisingly up for banter.

    Comment by Naomi
    112.
    January 24, 2009
    1:27 pm

    Irish people prefer going on the piss than spending money on records. Niche stores don’t work here because any genre obsessives generally move away to other countries, cities and integrate there. There isn’t really an underground in ireland, just a flabby middle ground where folks know a little about a lot. The only niche shops that survive here - althought they are suffering too - are trad music shops because they have a solid customer base, who don’t generally download, understand the importance of supporting a genre and buying local.

    Comment by bert cert
    113.
    January 25, 2009
    6:54 pm

    Vinnie - sorry, I didn’t realise who you were. Found out over the weekend that you’re the manager at Tower Records.

    Comment by Band Member
    114.
    January 26, 2009
    1:32 pm

    @Jack the lad
    ‘the landlord is not going to be happy to take Stoat albums in lieu of rent’

    That may be so, but having boxes of unsold Stoat t-shirts in your house is a great way to save on your central heating bill

    Comment by Cormac-out-of-Stoat
    115.
    January 26, 2009
    2:35 pm

    Let me preface this by saying that Dave and Julie are two of the nicest people you could ever be lucky enough to spend some time with, and I wish them all the best in the future.

    Having (badly) managed a record shop for a few years myself, I can offer a few tips for anyone wanting to get into the game, some obvious, some not.

    1. Customer service is king
    This isn’t just about being friendly, it’s about being able to offer a service that can’t be matched elsewhere (whatever that service is - back catalog, limited editions, etc), and having the right systems in place to deliver on your promises. And by systems I mean as little as a well organized and regularly updated pen and paper diary.

    2. Online is your friend
    Every piece of market research you need is available free online now if you know where to look, from Google Search Insights to Hypem. Not only should you be able to catalog and sell all your stock online, you should be reaching out into the “Social Media”, and not just by plugging your wares. And learn how to SEO your site…

    3. Getting people to hear a song is more important…
    than getting them to see the CD cover. In a shop it’s better to play 2 well chosen tracks off an album than letting it play all the way through. Online listening is essential to any shop, but what most fail to do is stream recommended tracks while you browse. There are money reasons for this (rights, server costs), but where there’s a will there’s a way.

    4. Explore additional revenue streams
    This was the biggest eye opener to me when I was running the shop. Know your customer, and what else they might buy that they are having difficulty finding. We used to sell bucket loads of wheelie record bags because no one else stocked them for ages. Similarly, computer music software and hardware.

    If I had enough money I’d open a music store, but I’d run it so that music retail only accounted for around 25% of revenue. The next 25% from t-shirts and runners, another 25% from music hardware, and the last 25% from additional services. Unfortunately I don’t have nearly enough money, and I’m really pretty happy in my current job.

    Comment by Philth
    116.
    January 27, 2009
    11:39 pm

    With Road, while they always had unrivalled stock of Irish bands, I sometimes would browse through their regular stock and find literally nothing that interested me. They mentioned that their customer base was getting older, but surely that’s partly because they weren’t stocking stuff that younger people would want?

    I know they would order it for you, but why order something if you can buy it down the road (in another independent shop) that day. Or more importantly (for me, as a perpetual browser) if there aren’t consistently CDs that pop out at me when I’m flicking through them, why would I become loyal to the place?

    That’s an individual take on it from someone who bought about one CD a month from Road - a case study that doesn’t rely on the “general” reasons, if you will.

    Comment by Karl

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