Now that they’ve nicked Analogue’s pitch, they’ll probably start covering the same acts as well.

State promised loads and delivered Abba instead. Its just like Hot Press, just without the interviews with criminals.

actually, why are they continuing on at all? Wouldn’t it be better to cut their losses with the print edition all together- or are they locked in on some advertising deals etc?

I don’t really want to dump on these guys, but it is hard not to guffaw when you read that. Even US political spin doctors have some shame! Worse, the dig at Analgoue, which is what it had to be, was unworthy and a tad pathetic.

Anyway, it will be genuinely interesting how they make this model work. On the (major) presumption that this is still a for-profit venture, a few things occur to me:

(1) It is one thing to say that the mag is free. It still needs to be put in the hands of the reading punter. That may not be as easy as it sounds – how many copies to print a month, where to send them, how to get people to sign up to postal subscriptions (ultimately the best way to build loyalty)? That said, I can see how they could be really innovative here too in terms of getting their product to where it needs to get to!

(2) Clearly the real €€€-making idea then has to be to load up on ads, like the free rags do. However, getting the balance between ads and content right ain’t easy if you want to have a loyal readership.

(3) Will quality suffer? Cutting a revenue stream usually means cutting costs too. Plain and simple.

In all, there is the smack of Ryanair about this. This can be a positive, as weill as a negative thing. However, the key will be a clear, coherent, and realistic vision of what the mag will now be about, how it will turn a profit and what the level of that profit shall be.

I will ask the question that I think that I asked before – has this idea been properly consumer-tested before being rolled out? If yes, then well done on making this brave decision. If not, then really well done on making this brave decision.

Well that’s it done for a lot of smaller towns and villages. The magazine will initially be instantly available in Ireland’s main towns and cities – that’d be good, because the print edition couldn’t be bought in most of the major towns and villages. I see this leading to the magazine getting more insular in terms of circulation, a shame because it’s quite good compared to Hot Press, which is still the only Irish music magazine to have a true presence throughout the country. I mean a subscription wont work, sure the folks of rural Ireland dont want people knowing their address.

“…returning with a November issue at the beginning of October ”

Surely thats an October issue at the beginning of October or is this a new direction in publishing?

it’s not only analogue.. connected magazine are for free and nationwide too.. so state is, em, 3rd in the queue for the tag of originator..

Kinda makes you wonder what the whole hullabaloo over dropping the price to €5 and adding a cover-mount CD was all about. I guess they figured they’d try one last ditch effort at gettin sales figures up, and when that failed it’s time to revert to the Metro/Herald AM approach. And they really could do with hiring some minimum wage raincoats to literally put it into the hands of consumers as i imagine the distribution figures to be had from simply leaving a pile in Tower Records, Eager Beaver and the universities around town isn’t going to be nearly enough to sustain their high production values…

I wouldn’t read it when it was €5.50 and I wouldn’t read it now. The writing is terrible. Sorry Nialler you may be the greatest living Irish blogger and know a fair amount about music but you can’t write for shit. State tried to launch a mag off his back and they failed.

ah #16 you silly anonymous fool you.
Yeah its failed but its a great mag all the same.

Woah, cool the jets everyone. Lets stick with the basic rules of the game – play the ball, not the man. No cheap shots at any individual writers (bar me – and please remember I didnt write for state) unless you’re prepared to be a man – or a woman – about it and not use a makey-up name and email address.

I’m delighted they are sticking with the print format. I was a fan of the mag and it would be a shame to see it go so early in its run.

Wow, the glee is not even barely disguised here. They gave it a go, didn’t work out which is pretty crap for music in ireland with one less music mag no matter how you look at. They’re trying a different approached, if it works, great. Music journalists always get hit with the criticism of being crap writers. It’s doesn’t have to be Shakespeare.

@ 23, advertisers will not put more money into the magazine because it is free.

It’s a shame to see State bow out so early on in the game… for whatever reason. It’s true that neither Hotpress nor State hold the title for World’s Greatest Music Magazine, but Irish readers are a tough and cynical crowd (example – #21). It seems that anybody who tries to combine their love of music with a money making venture in this country gets it from all angles… from artists and readers for being too commercialy motivated and profit driven to fellow writers for being repetitive and boring. Personally I think it’s a shame that Irish people can’t embrace the few music/entertainment magazines that we have and offer constructive criticism rather than the usual Irish way of begrudging ‘the other guy’.

I’m delighted that State is staying in print format… it’s a dying breed.

i want foggy notions back

Response from an Analogue writer (me) – http://www.analoguemagazine.com/the_blog/state-fails-to-find-a-paying-market/

I think that comment regarding Nialler’s writing is extremely unfair. I really enjoy his reviews and features and consider him one of State’s most interesting contributors.

Agree with David that a nominal fee would be better than free. Find it very difficult to get excited about the free papers as they’re usually chockah with ads but hey ho, rather that than see it sink.
Here’s to v2.0!

Trying to sell advertisements in a product that nobody wanted first time around is going to be very tough. If I were in their shoes I would rebrand it. Out with the old and in with the new. Plus it would stop me calling it SLATE, which I keep doing.

I still haven’t seen Analogue magazine anywhere. Is it in colleges only?

I’m surprised the magazine was ever published. The only reason Hot Press is still going is because it has such a pathetic market, no one really in their right mind should ever want to challenge it. Buy a Spar franchise if you want to make money.

Maybe they can have a run at Mongrel’s advertisers (who still seem elusive to most other publications) now that they are following down the same business model.

@ Nay, as oppossed to mags that are ads free?

Gripe gripe gripe gripe. What a joyful and enthusiastic country we live in.

Best of luck to State, I didn’t mind handing over the money for a decent read but I love free stuff as much as the next person. State shall remain the most hallowed of toilet time magazines in my gaf.

I see Nialler9 has responded eloquently to criticisms of the move on his blog

“Fuck the internets as The Roots might say”

Dearie me

Dear oh dear. Who cares what is written in a press release?!

Dear oh dear. Who cares what is written in a press release?!

Well, Conor, for instance, if I got a press release from an act saying that certain named journalists who I respected had tipped this act, I’d be more inclined to take a listen.

Likewise with this, the press release went out yesterday containing a perception that State is “the first Quality National Music Monthly available completely free of charge”. We know that this is not true but there are people who will receive this press release and take this to be the case. It’s the same reason why we’re so hard on promoters who cancel shows due to “unforseen circumstances” rather than saying the gig flopped.

Music writers get paid sometimes??!!! What!

state’s first free-issue cover needs to be Nialler9 and Nailerz with a couple of baseball bats with nails driven into them.

Headline?
“NIALLERZ & NAILERZ BRING D PAIN 2 D HATERZ”

Phil Udell of State was just on Phantom news. He mentioned a number of quality free music mags – including Analogue – and hit the nail on the head by basically saying that the Irish market was too used to the old way of doing things (read: closed minded) to accept new players into the game.
I couldn’t agree with him more. Everybody whinges about how crap Hotpress is, but when an alternative comes along they do absolutely nothing to acknowledge that they might be trying to do something different and proceed to bundle them in with the rest of the publications that they begrudge.
I bet if Analogue or The Event Guide started charging for their publications people would start bitching about the quality of writing/content pretty quickly.

“The difference, then, becomes the quality of the interview/review in question..”

@53. Yep here at Analogue we’ve always tried to ask slightly more inciteful questions and take things from a fans point of view. Readers don’t like to get talked down to and a lot of music publications are guilty of that.

“The real question shouldn’t be whether a music magazine should be free or otherwise, the question is whether they’re even necessary, and whether they’re providing an insight for readers or merely acting as a vehicle for the whims of promoters/labels without consideration of whether an act is worthy of coverage or not..”

That certainly isn’t the case with Analogue. We only cover stuff we are interested. For example if we’re offered an interview with a band, whether it’s Oasis, Korn, the Blizzards or whatever Irish band – I pass it on to the writers and they decide if they’re interested in doing the piece or not. How else can you maintain credibility? We also would never put a band on the cover just for a reaction, that’s completely disengenius and insulting to your reader.

And I still think there’s a place for the print medium, sure surviving in print is tougher now but who said things are meant to be easy. Music journalism isn’t just about writing, it’s about illustration, photography and design. In my humble opinion, that all gets completely lost online.

Wow, Bren from Analogue, Phil from State and Jim from the Irish Times all in a row – all we need now is Niall Stokes and we’ll know for sure that everyone in the music meeja business is glued to On The Record all day every day

“Everybody whinges about how crap Hotpress is, but when an alternative comes along they do absolutely nothing to acknowledge that they might be trying to do something different and proceed to bundle them in with the rest of the publications that they begrudge.”

What exactly were they doing different? It seemed to me that they were doing the exact same thing as every other music publication out there. Only State were interviewing bands a few months after everyone else. They were slow on the up-take with certain acts. I’m all for more music magazines in Ireland, but let’s not try and pretend that we caused the downfall of State because we complained about it too much. We complained about it for a reason. Who knows, perhaps being a free magazine will give them the kick up the arse they need and from now on they will start covering better bands.

As for Analogue, I’ll hold back from kissing their arses right now. It has the potential to be a good magazine because of the artists they cover, but the writing is still fairly dull and bland.

Well at least there’s a forum here (or comment thread thingy…) where everyone gets to see everyone else’s opinions on this matter. I hear that On The Record is gonna be a print publication from next month too…it’s a rsiky move, Jim.

Had a peek at the State website this morning and already it’s streets ahead of the previously incarnation. I am a flabbergasted though why they haven’t chosen the website route and dropped the printed route. There is a market for a well designed, well written, interested in new music online publication in the Irish market. Check the stats, has readership in printed media expanded recently, none or very little. Online readership has a way to go due to broadband penetration in this country but the potential is there for all to see. And, it doesn’t matter where you live, even if you are on top of Croagh Patrick you can get the internet.

There is a market for a well designed, well written, interested in new music online publication in the Irish market.

Hugger – you said it. I’m flabbergasted that no-one has thought of this since the original and best Muse (version 1.0, not the heap of shite currently squatting at that URL) went off air in 2001.

That’s what I thought State was gonna be. And it now looks like it will – finally – go down that road.

hayfork.ie

hayfork.ie
Arf!

I was a never a huge fan of the magazine but I’ve Just checked out the revamped State website:it looks fantastic. Well done to all concerned.

@ Bren #56, your last comment:

You have to bear in mind that State was started by, and is financed by, a photographer. He’s probably of the same opinion as you.

Vox, Select, Sounds, The Maker,

if they couldn’t survive the British market,
how can a new mag expect to survive in a market this small?

@ 43, Leigh, you are presupposing an advertise would LOVE to pay top dollar to advertise in a free publication.

They don’t and they won’t. The reason publications like Metro, Herald AM, Event Guide and Totally Dublin have “loads of ads” in them is because they sell them at rock bottom prices.

The cost to a publication of placing an ad that costs EUR100 is exactly the same as placing an ad that costs EUR4000. The cost to a publication of placing 40 x EUR100 and is therefore 40 times that of placing 1 x EUR4,000 ad.

Additionally, the currency of big money print advertising is ABC and JNRS readership survey. While State will not doubt have a printer’s cert and ABC seal of approval, the JNRS will most likely be too costly versus the advertising return.

That said, State is not dead in the water. It is revamping both its print offering and its website. I would like to think that Roger Woolman’s vision is realised through impressive traffic figures on State.ie.

New media thinking would mean advertisers would be more likely to use the website first and magazine second. They won’t be millionaires over-night, but they’ll be on the right track.

Finally, on the matter of advertisers influencing content, a media agency has little or no interest in PR. That is not why they are contracted. Again, it is the editor’s choice as to how receptive of press releases from brands a publication should be.

In my experience, of which I have many years, an increase of brand ads in a publication will generally lead a PR agency to phone a brand manager looking for their share of the pie, using sultry and seductive terms such as, “leverage paid for space”, and, “photo-call with brand manager and Assets Lovely du jour on Grafton St”.

Una @ 73

i agree Una that any publicity is good publicity but you do have to make room ( a lot of room) for the armchair experts, not everyone can go out there and make a blog, play a gig, or start a magazine. Some people are too busy writing remarks that get others riled up enough call them ‘haters’. All very american if you ask me, a bit like ‘bite me’. It lacks the necessary clout to put people in their place really (not having a go at you, just saying calling someone a hater isnt going to deter them)

Personally if it were my work getting slagged off i wouldnt give a toss as long it was getting attention/hits/column inches. As the man who’s name graced the loudest, debaucherously dirtiest, longest partying campsite at the Picnic once said;

“One can survive everything, nowadays, except death, and live down everything except a good reputation.”

Never truer in this country. But sure where’s the fun in it if we all agree?

Matt darling – I think previous posts here would have established that declaration of interest a long, long time ago

Yeah, we were ahead of ourselves. It was all thanks to Kate Butler. And Mick Heaney. And Derek O’Connor. And Loki. Ah, the good old days…..

@ 79: I’m talking about unconstructive criticism, and pissing on things for the sake of it. Most of whom, of course, do this in an anonymous fashion.

Sure, State – like everything – has its faults, but it’s the best Irish music publication out there. Whether it will improve or disimprove due to its new direction remains to be seen.

I think it is interesting how it has all happened. It was a very brave move to set up a magazine, especially considering the market they were going for (music fans) are perhaps the most cynical demographic of all. In fact, most people would have thought it half cracked to set up a music magazine that veered towards the mainstream in a culture when most music fans get their information and general music digest online.

It is rather ridiculous to see a magazine of low standards (Hotpress) far outsell one of higher standards (State), but people buy shit. That’s why the worst newspapers and lamest bands are the biggest sellers.

Unless you water yourself down to a base level, or are super-niche, it’s hard to survive when you’re asking for money.

Apart from The Phoenix, all of the Irish magazines I read are free; GCN, Totally Dublin, The Event Guide, Butcher Queers, Analogue and now State.

@78

cheers markg,
i am a reader and not a detractor – just raising what i thought might be a concern

No worries Leigh.

Just thought I explain things from this side of the fence.

“In my experience, of which I have many years, an increase of brand ads in a publication will generally lead a PR agency to phone a brand manager looking for their share of the pie, using sultry and seductive terms such as, “leverage paid for space”, and, “photo-call with brand manager and Assets Lovely du jour on Grafton St”.

Ah Markg, we missed you.

Actually now that our man in the red braces is back, what’s the general view of the advertising agencies on the current move to ad-supported products, be it in music or media? Are they beating people off with a big stick? Or are they being cautious?

(if you dont want to comment, that’s cool)

I forgot about Muse (and Moose), just dug this up from nine years ago this week. Jaysus Jim, ye lot had the life…

WHAT’S GOING ON THIS WEEK AT MUSE – Bring it on and lets get it on as Muse heads to a posh hotel to take morning coffee with Gomez, the Best New Band of ‘98, who are here to prove that that was no fluke with their bonzer new collection “Liquid Skin”. There’s also words to the wise about Krautrock pioneers Can and Detroit’s favourite son Carl Craig,
both due in Ireland in the coming days for much anticipated shows. We review albums from Elvis Costello, Alex Gopher, Kid Loco, Breakbeat Era, The Faces, Prince and some classical blokes. There’s a look at the forthcoming Modulations documentary, a competition where you can win stuff from Go, a guide to Shopping at Big Brother in Dublin plus an Old Skool look at the Silver Apples. Add in
our award-winning coverage of gigs (Flyposters), clubs (You Dancin’? You Askin’? and the news of the week (Microphone) and you have Muse. Hold it right there, fella…

I’m not THAT young but what was Muse?

Jim – perhaps you should cast your eye over this then
http://web.archive.org/web/20010801151501/www.muse.ie/welcome.html

I was jet setting and it is nice to know you missed me Jim.

To answer your question, in theory ad agencies are all behind ad supported media content. It remains to be seen, however, if the brands they represent or the consumers they are targeting as enthusiastic about it.

‘I’m just miffed that no one ever mentions AU when all these rows over Irish music magazines emerge. We’ve been on the scene for over five years now, wish we had a bit more profile across the border as I think people would dig what we do.’

- Yeah, AU doesn’t have much of a profile down here, does it? Really good content too. I don’t see it around too often, where should I be looking?

Yeah Nokia Trend Labs was a Nokia gig, nothing to do with the ad agency.

Surely State being free now will mean about 50% of its content will be ads? it cost a bit too much but i still bought 3 of them. A fairer price of about 3 or 4 euro would have kept a lot of people coming back, i think it’s fair to say.

Far from complaining about negative opinions here, I would see this thread as actually being yet another gift horse from OTR readers! And you know what you should not do with gift horses, I hope!

Many OTR readers seem like they earn decent enough money. Furthermore, the daily feedback they provide shows that they have an interest in music and use these decently-sized incomes to buy albums, tickets, magazines, turntables, foot pedals, Elton John’s clothes, etc. Therefore, far from casually dismissing them as moaning Internet people, they should be respected as erudite target CUSTOMERS of anyone wanting to make money out of music.

I will be bold enough to say that anyone who has read this site since its inception would have been pretty sure that State would struggle massively in the market as a quality and relatively expensive print mag. The various debates here week-in, week-out show how much the customer has moved away from the traditional industry norms of CDs, print magazines, etc.

Indeed, if State, Hotpress et al want to figure out where they are going right or wrong, they should be trying to run customer surveys through their websites in order to get honest, quick and inexpensive feedback!

Simply put, anyone who does not listen regularly and intently to their customers will never succeed in business – especially when trying to make money in an industry that is going through radical changes!

@106
Dude, readers (or moaners) being well off is largely beside the point – we’re entering into an era where punters, regardless of how much they make, are becoming increasingly unwilling to pay for anything music related that they can get for free (which is a lot, let’s be honest). Try all you want, but pure perspiration and even that added inspiration isn’t necessarily going to get you anywhere in the industry anymore.

bring back Muse! the reading public of irelan demand it! Rondomondo, get back here with some money..or maybe we could tap up the new Man City owners to fund it?

I really think there is a void to be filled since Mongrel went and got put down. So good luck to State and all who sail in her and f*ck the begrudgers.

@108 – I think that we agree really. I was dealing here with a specific instance of trying to sell a start-up, high-quality, premium-priced specialist music magazine. The target market for such a product leaves a lot of feedback here and, as you say, their preferences for how they read about music and how much they will pay for it have changed a great deal.

Hey Jonny, I thought you were going to make a big push down here this time last year. What happened that? By the by, keep an eye out for Analogue in Belfast from next week onwards…

@116 – It’s a resources issue to be honest Bren. We’re now available across Ireland, and it’s doing OK, but we need the people on the ground to help push it. We have a new full time Marketing & Advertising Manager on board now, which has made a massive difference in the past month. I reckon in the near future we’ll be at a point where we can shift focus across Ireland once again. Good news on Analogue in Belfast – where will be be available?

Yikes. If all the people who commented here went out and picked up analogue, state, connected, and AU tommorow, there wouldn’t be any left! I have to agree with Jonny about AU, I got my hands on a few copies, and in terms of the level of humour in the writing it’s great stuff.

Jonny, Bren – I like to think that all three mags are doing the same thing in different ways, filling the gaps that each other leaves. One big mag family if you like. Like you both we’ve run as a very small opperation but it’s worth the struggle isn’t it? Viva la revolution…