Gaelic Games: Ian O'Riordan talks to two managers, one who backs the revised rule and one who's not convinced.

In revisiting their experimental rule addressing indiscipline the GAA have once again elicited mixed opinion. Dublin football manager Paul Caffrey welcomed yesterday's revision as a more workable deterrent for over-aggressive play and persistent fouling, while Armagh manager Joe Kernan questioned whether it will be effective in penalising teams for such offences.

Neither manager had experienced first hand the trials and errors of the sin bin. Dublin sent an under-21 team into the O'Byrne Cup, while Ulster opted not to use it in the Dr McKenna Cup, and yet Caffrey was still open to the fresh challenge that now lies in store for the National Football League.

"All along I felt we had to try and tidy up the game," said Caffrey. "But I thought the main problem with the sin bin was that it wasn't going to work across all levels. Whatever changes are made at intercounty level ultimately have to be brought down to club and juvenile level.

"So there was a problem with using the fourth official to control the sin bin, because you couldn't do that at club level, and certainly not at underage level. If any rule change is going to successful and passed by Congress then it will have to be seen as workable at all levels and ranks of the game.

The Dublin manager admitted there was some uncertainty about just how effective the sending-off for a yellow card would prove. Yet he was all for experiment: "This is still a big challenge for players and managers, because it does put greater onus on the proper technique in terms of the tackle. That means some adjustment in the training and in the mindset, but that can only be a good thing, because ultimately we're talking about improving discipline here.

"So I still feel we should all be patient, and work through this testing period. I for one look forward to the challenge of trying to work with them during the National League."

One of the obvious problems with the new rule is the danger of running out of substitutes, with a manager now more likely to use up all his replacements before the end of the game, depending on the number of players he is forced to replace. Even with the extra substitute on board, it could be that a player injured late in the game can't be replaced. Nonetheless, Caffrey, is prepared to embrace the change.

"Yeah, that's another challenge for everyone, but there's no change in any walk of life without a bit of hardship, or even soul searching. If people want to knock something they will always find reason why things will be more awkward. But this is a thinking man's game, so maybe we'll just have to think a little harder about it."

But with more and more emphasis being placed on substitutes, the reduction of intercounty panels from 30 to 24 has been opened up to more criticism. Caffrey is also determined to work around that: "We'll be naming 24 players for our league matches. Obviously we'll have a working panel of far more than 24, and that still leaves us with nine substitutes. That's a challenge too, but I am prepared to work on that."

Kernan also intends to work off the larger panel for match preparations, but the Armagh manager does not agree with the situation where the player who is yellow-carded is then automatically replaced. In other words, some players might still engage in deliberate fouling - knowing the team wouldn't suffer as a result.

"I still see a few problems with this alternative," said Kernan. "You have a substitute coming on for the player that's dismissed, so the team that's after being penalised because of the foul doesn't really suffer a disadvantage. That situation still puts a lot of pressure on the referee.

"It also puts a lot more pressure on how managers use substitutes. If, say, I want to make a tactical switch early in the game I'm going to be a lot more hesitant now, simply because I'd be afraid of what might happen later in the game."

Kernan would have been happier if the old disciplinary rules were reintroduced: "From what I saw the new experiment just wasn't working out that good. Obviously they wanted to keep it going in some format, but what's the next alternative if this doesn't work? But this is obviously going to be in for the league now, and there's nothing we can do about that. If it doesn't work this time though it will have to go."