A totally different ball game

You are a former international footballer and a member of the BBC's football commentary team so how on earth did you become involved…

You are a former international footballer and a member of the BBC's football commentary team so how on earth did you become involved in fronting a video about the Masters?

Basically because the BBC asked me. Augusta National asked the BBC to make a documentary about the Masters, but it was at short notice and all the obvious candidates such as Peter Alliss or Steve Rider were working at the time when the interviews had to be done, so for some reason they asked me. I've no idea why they did, but I was delighted because Augusta was one place I have always wanted to visit. The first thing I asked when I heard about the project was whether I would get to go there. It was a dream come true. I went to Augusta and got paid as well. What's more, because some of the stars couldn't speak to me at Augusta, I also got to go to The Players Championship. That was a nice bonus, too.

How important is golf to you?

Golf has always been my first love, much more so than football. I wanted to be a golfer from about the age of nine or 10. People who know me will tell you that when I'm not in front of the cameras all I talk about is golf. We talk a lot about golf in the Match of the Day studios as well. The team know I am the worst putter in the western world and are always pulling my leg about that.

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What's your background in the game?

I started playing in my home town of Sauchie when I was about seven. I used to live about 100 yards from the golf course and, in the summer, between the ages of seven and 18, I used to spend my life on the golf course. I was there from 8.0 in the morning until it got dark. Then I started playing in competitions. I used to play 36 holes on a Saturday and then 36 holes on a Sunday. I loved it. I was still doing that in the summer when I was playing with Partick Thistle. It wasn't until I came south that golf had to take a back seat for a while.

What were your highlights in golf at that time?

I played twice in the Scottish Boys' Championship and reached the last 16 in the first. Then I played in the Scottish Boys' Strokeplay and finished seventh and, as a result, was selected as the first reserve for the Scottish Boys' team. A lot of people were unhappy with that because they thought I should have been in the team. I had a pretty good county record, too, but even at that stage I had trouble with my putting so maybe that was what counted against me.

It's difficult. Even at that time in the early 70s golf was a rich kids' game. The guys who were in the team then tended to come from affluent families and I didn't. They had all the best equipment, but I couldn't afford it. I remember turning up as the first reserve for the Scotland v England match at Moortown in Leeds and finding that the grip on my ancient hickory putter had come undone. It was embarrassing, I felt everyone was looking at me.

In the end I caddied for Steve Martin in the foursomes and then went home. I was the only one out of the 28 (two teams of 12, plus four reserves) who didn't hang around for the British Boys' Championship because I didn't know about it and probably couldn't have afforded it anyhow. But there was a funny story about that foursomes match because Martin and his partner played against Sandy Lyle. Lyle was playing for England at that time, but about 10 years later he teamed up with Martin to compete for Scotland in the World Cup. Even then he looked a fantastic golfer.

Was there ever a time you thought you might be a golfer rather than a footballer?

Between the ages of 15 and 17 I packed in football to concentrate on playing golf. I got down to a two handicap when I was 16, but then didn't really progress much after that so when I turned 18 and left school I began playing football for Partick Thistle.

Where do you play your golf now?

I'm a member at Hillside. I love the place. You read a lot about the best courses in the British Isles and I've played a lot of them, but this takes some beating. The back nine is fantastic. It's also a great club, where they're all very competitive and that's what I want. I love competition and I love having a card in my hand. I've always been the same. I cannot play golf just for fun; there has to be something on it even if it's just a pound. It's kill or be killed. I play a lot with a guy called Rob Godley, who has been scratch or plus one for a long time. He's a Manchester United supporter so he's had a lot to pull my leg about for the last few years, but he didn't beat me on the golf course in 1998 so I guess I got my own back.

What do you play off now?

I'm off three, no, 2.5, to be exact. It's the lowest I've been since I was a kid. Between about 1981 and 1987 I stopped playing (when he was with Liverpool), I might have played about once or twice a year, but my handicap lapsed. When I came back, they gave me six. That was a mistake. I was pretty dangerous off that and I started to come down quite quickly, but 2.5 is the lowest I've been.

Were you one of those people who grew up watching the Masters on TV, and, if so, do you have any abiding memories about previous tournaments?

Jack Nicklaus was always my hero. I remember the Open at Turnberry in 77 and his big shoot-out with Tom Watson and almost all of his Masters victories.

1986 was so special. 1986 was a big year because I really loved Ballesteros as well. I was desperate for them both to win.

The strange thing is that I was never much of a Watson fan, or at least I wasn't until he was well past his best. I suppose it was because he came along and stole the crown from Jack Nicklaus. It's not that I don't like him. I knew that he was a great player, a great champion and a great sportsman, but, at the time, I didn't want him to beat Nicklaus.

I understand that you attended last year's Masters in order to start filming for the video. What did you think of it?

It was fantastic and made even better because I was able to take my son Adam with me, who is a keen golfer. He dislocated his knee just before we went, but nothing would stop him from making the trip.

Did Augusta National live up to your expectations?

It did. It was even better than I'd expected and I actually got to go there twice. The first time was during the week of the TPC when I went to interview Arnold Palmer and the second was for the tournament itself. We did the Palmer interview in the Champions' Locker Room. Can you imagine that? I honestly don't think it gets any better than that. Forget Wembley and 100,000 fans. I'd take Arnold Palmer in the Champions' Locker Room every time.

What impressed you the most about Augusta National?

The organisation of the tournament is superb, but the course is out of this world. I don't think people out there understand how good it is. The condition of the course at the TPC was fantastic, but Augusta was another level above that. It's perfect. As an avid golfer I was interested in the history and tradition of the place, but I was even more keen to see the course. That's all I wanted to do.

Was there anything about the place which surprised you?

People told me before I went that I wouldn't believe how hilly it was. It is very undulating, but that didn't interest me much. I was more interested in the other features.

The most important features to me are the greens. They're impossible to putt on if you put your ball in the wrong place on some of them. For example, if you go short left on the 14th green and the pin is back right you could be there for six months. You've got to be a good putter to get round Augusta, but you've also got to put the ball in the right place. If you end up in the wrong place, you're dead. The fifth green is another example of that. It's unbelievable (laughs). I'm not sure I could ever hole out there, even with my new broomhandle putter.

It sounds as if you spent a lot of time wandering around while you were there?

Yes, I loved it. The first link I did was at the 12th. That's another scary hole. The first day I went down there Olin Browne came to the tee with all his irons in his hand then pretended to ask someone in the gallery which club he should use. It's that sort of hole. The wind swirls around and it's almost impossible to choose a club. But you have to get it right or else you end up in the water or the bunkers behind the green. There are a lot of great stories about the 12th and we've got about six of them on the video. To be honest, we could have filled the whole video with them.

Did you get a chance to play the course?

I didn't. I went into the media ballot to see if I could get a game on the Monday after the tournament, but my name wasn't drawn out of the hat. I did wonder if I might get a game when I was there before the tournament. After all, I was making a documentary about the place, but, of course, that doesn't matter at Augusta. You've still got to play with a member, and there weren't any around. Now that the documentary is finished someone might give me a game. But I wouldn't put money on it!

While you were filming the video did you have much contact with the leading golfers?

I think I met most of them and they were all terrific. I'm also doing a football documentary at the moment, and the difference between the top golfers and the top footballers is that the golfers are much harder to pin down. You might put a time in the diary, but then find that the golfer is still on the course or on the practice ground. Interviewing golfers involves a lot of hanging around, but once you've got them and got them rolling you get some great stuff. Mind you, I suppose I would be the same if you asked me about the Championships I've won. I'd give you an hour and a half of it and I'd look like I was enjoying it.

Who impressed you the most?

Nicklaus was special because he has always been my hero. He wasn't easy to track down. In fact, we did the interview in Chester when he came over to open his new course at Carden Park. Great course it is, too. He was tired and I think it shows on the video, but he was still terrific. It was the first time I'd met him. You're basically in awe of these guys. They are legends. And they are legends in a different field to the one I'm used to. I wouldn't have been nearly as much in awe of a footballer because I've done pretty well in that game. I wouldn't say I was a legend, but I was pretty high up in the game so I would feel I had something in common with them. But golfers are different. I don't mind admitting I was nervous.

What about the others? Is there any one interview which sticks in your mind?

Ballesteros. He was a classic example of being difficult to track down. It took five months to organise, but in the end he said, "Pedrena, 2.30, 8th September," so that's where I had to go. He might have been due at Forest of Arden on the Wednesday, but if he says Tuesday in Spain that's what you have to do. When we did get together he'd done some stuff with some kids at Pedrena in the morning and had also done about two interviews before me. I was third in line so he was a bit tired, but that's when I played my ace card. I knew he was interested in football so when we were setting up I got him onto the subject. We talked about Racing Santander (Seve's team) for a while and then we got onto English football. He didn't know who I was, but as soon as I said I was a former Liverpool player we were off and running. The interview lasted about half an hour and he was terrific. There's a bit on the video when he says he could win the Masters again and he says it with such conviction you start to wonder if he can. But then you look at his record and the doubts start to return.

I understand you purchased an Augusta poster and got it signed by some of the stars. Is that correct?

Yes. It's of the 16th hole. We got most of the former champions to sign it, and my son has it now. We've just had it framed and it looks terrific. The only trouble is that golfers' signatures are even worse than those of the footballers. You spend about 20 minutes going through them wondering which is which. But I suppose it's something which will be worth a few quid in years to come. Not that I'd sell it. Adam wouldn't let me.

Was the poster all you bought?

No, I bought all the usual stuff. I got some markers for a friend who collects them, some towels and some mugs. We use them a lot.

I've heard that quite a lot of footballers are interested in golf. Who are the best at the sport?

Gary McAllister at Coventry was once beaten in a play-off for the Scottish Boys' Strokeplay title. He's still a very good player, while Gary Gillespie, formerly of Liverpool, was off one at one time. Michael Owen is pretty useful. He's off about eight. And my old pal Kenny Dalglish is playing off six. He's a member at Hillside as well.

Why do you think golf is so popular with them?

It's because it's such a good game. They have a lot of spare time, but it's got to be more than that. It is a great game. You can get hooked on golf and a lot of them have.

Now that you've done the Augusta video would you like to do more in golf?

It all depends how it is received. I'd like to do more, but I couldn't be an Alex Hay or a Peter Alliss because I don't have the background. I could never go on a golf commentary and give opinions like I do on Match Of The Day. You've got to be an expert to do that and I'm not. I might know a bit about the game, but I haven't played at the highest level so I don't believe I could be critical about someone who has.

This is probably a dodgy question given what has happened to Glenn Hoddle recently, but if you could be reincarnated as any golfer, who would you like to be?

(Laughs) I'm not sure I should answer that. It would have to be Nicklaus. He had everything.

What about if you came back as a footballer?

I've never really had football heroes as such. Not like golf. Bobby Moore was one I suppose and Jim Baxter at Rangers was another, but they never meant as much to me as Nicklaus. Golf's the thing. It's the best game in the world, by a mile. I don't regret being a footballer because I had such a great time, but I would have loved to have been good enough to be a golfer. That would have been great. And you don't even have to run about, either!

Colin Callander/Golf Monthly/IPC Magazines Ltd. This interview appears in full in the current issue of Golf Monthly.