‘The contempt with which Arts degrees are treated is a tiresome trope’

Points for many arts and creative courses fell as students as Leaving Cert students received their CAO offers, with many choosing degrees linked to areas of strong jobs growth such as science, engineering and teaching.

We asked Irish Times readers about their experiences with an Arts degree: did they enjoy the course, why did they choose that course, was it worth it?

The overall experience with Arts is a positive one, judging from their responses, with flexibility and learning experiences among the positives cited.

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Caolán McManus: ‘For the moment, I’m fairly sure the Arts degree will be worth it for me in the end’

Here is a selection of stories we received from readers this week.

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Helen, Co Dublin: 'The beauty of an arts degree was the empty space around the learning that students are left to fill themselves'

In two weeks’ time I’ll be graduating with a BA International in English. It’s not the degree I thought I’d be getting when I filled out my CAO four years ago, but I know that it has been an invaluable experience nonetheless.

I think people write off arts degrees as either the fanciful outlet for the dreamers at the back of the class who will never make any money or else a last resort for the aimless and unambitious who don’t know what else to write on their CAO. While you can definitely find both of these types of people in an arts lecture theatre, there are also all types in between.

The beauty of an arts degree, and the aspect that most benefited myself, was the empty space around the learning that students are left to fill themselves. In between my 15 hours a week of contact time, I was completely immersed in university society life and my own social life.

Arts degrees aren’t about the end goal, and their advocates aren’t motivated by ambition. This is not to say that you can’t get a job with an arts degree, you absolutely can - I myself have a graduate position in a publisher. It’s just that getting a job is not the measure of success by which arts graduates are held against.

We need doctors and engineers as much as we need painters and playwrights. However, if you are the type of person who likes to feel free to explore all avenues, or if you just crave a creative outlet, then arts degrees are definitely worthwhile, and definitely worth preserving.

Darragh Miller, Ireland: 'The humanities is hugely worth it and is so underfunded that it's a tragedy'

The question of whether studying the humanities is ‘worth’ anything, is troubling indeed. I made the conscious decision to return to education to complete an undergraduate in Philosophy and Sociology, during the height of the recession.

I had previously decided just to work after the Leaving Cert, to save money, and to experience the ‘real world’. Nonetheless, I was back in education driven by a will to study and better understand the problems occurring in society around me.

After getting decent grades, I started to use my knowledge and curiosity in the voluntary sector when I found time, and all of a sudden, my confidence grew from that. I can thank my grounding in humanities for giving me the basic human, logical and critical skills to allow me to perform in challenging environments.

I continued into post-graduate study to conduct fieldwork, and I am delighted with how this has gone. The question is troubling because the humanities is hugely worth it, and is so underfunded that it’s a tragedy. There will always be people who naturally excel in the humanities - our Irish history is rich with them, so the question rather is: Why is arts not worth it?

Molly Twomey, Cork: 'The Arts are where dreams are no longer just notions but real life plans'

I studied Arts with Creative Writing at NUI Galway before transferring to study English Literature in University College Cork.

The years I spent as an undergraduate were the best years of my life. Studying English allowed me to understand people and the culture they inhabit on a much deeper level. I was opened up to literature from around the world and written from a variety of perspectives. As result, I became a lot more compassionate and accepting, and empathy and understanding are the values that I pride myself on today.

Moreover, I met the most innovative and critically engaged people, and there is nothing more powerful than a group of students amalgamating together with unique and original ideas. The Arts are where literary journals are set up, plays are performed, dreams are no longer just notions but real life plans.

People, myself included, look to the Arts to create meaning and to make sense of the world, to find a character we can relate to or a poem that makes us feel something raw and inexplicable. I did not let commercialism and fear stop me from pursuing my passion and I am about to enter into a Masters of Creative Writing.

Yet I do worry about my future, but this is caused by the lack of financial support and recognition the Arts gets. The real issue we need to face head-on is not that students aren’t choosing the Arts but why the majority of the public do not value the Arts. We expect free admission to galleries, free access to articles online, free publication advice and the list goes on. We need to value our artists and we need to do it now.

Oisin Mahon, Dublin: 'I would recommend an Arts degree to anyone'

I’m 24, did a BA in Geography and Sociology in UCD and am starting Graduate Entry Medicine in September. At 17/18 I wasn’t particularly motivated. I knew I’d be interested in Medicine or Physiotherapy but the points seemed so unattainable. Science courses were ahead of Arts on my CAO but they were also realistically out of my reach.

The only other class I enjoyed in school was geography, so I put that down, and ended up in Arts. The best thing about an Arts degree is the amount of choice. There were a number of core modules which were compulsory but for the majority of the degree I was able to pick modules that seemed interesting to me, unlike the majority of degrees where every class is chosen for you.

I’m happy to have done an Arts degree, it has introduced me to new topics of interest as well as providing me access to postgraduate studies. I would recommend an Arts degree to anyone considering it, even if it’s not your first choice it will open up opportunities.

Heather McGowan, Belfast: 'I would say that if your head isn't sure about the course, follow your heart'

I changed my mind at the very last minute. I was going to study Public Relations and had a change of heart at the start of the summer. I had a music course down as an insurance if my grades didn’t go as I wanted, and I was allowed to change it to a degree course and had to let the university know what I wanted to do when my results came out.

I’m so glad I changed. I had three years of studying the subject that I loved and gaining experience of working and playing with musicians from all different fields. My course gave me a strong basis for the first two years and then offered the opportunity to specialise in performance, history or composition depending on my personal strengths.

I went on to do a PGCE in music education and have enjoyed the last 20-plus years working in an integrated secondary school where I’ve been able to spread my love of music to countless young people. I would say that if your head isn’t sure about the course, follow your heart.

Leslie Spillane: 'I think postgraduate courses should be offering specialised skills for the job market'

I studied arts in UCC and graduated with a first class honours degree in 2011. I chose UCC because of the choice of four subjects in the first year. My degree was in English and Art History.

Graduating into the middle of the recession meant several unpaid internships and emigrating abroad. I have struggled to get employment with an arts degree and have only been able to find generic office/receptionist work. I went on to do a master’s in art history again in UCC, I’ve found this has hurt rather than helped employment opportunities, and I am more likely to get job interviews if I don’t put it on my CV.

The Masters programme didn’t offer any practical job skills or work placements and after graduating I found employers, even in the arts sectors, wanted graduates with more practical experience and a job history rather than a qualification.

If I could do it over again I would have waited a few years and gotten more work experience in the industry and then gone on to do a master’s in a more practical field that offered work placements or a direct track into the job market. I am grateful for my education and feel my degree really enhanced my life.

I did enjoy every minute of being in university, but I think postgraduate courses should be offering specialised skills for the job market and be preparing students better for going on to earn a living after they graduate.

Michael Leahy, Co Galway: 'The contempt with which Arts degrees are treated is a tiresome trope'

My Arts degree was absolutely worth it. Not only was I able to discover my own strengths and decide which subjects I enjoyed, but I now hold an LLB thanks to my BA in legal studies.

I know countless people who jumped into nursing, teaching or other “jobs-friendly” courses only to regret it after finishing their degree. Arts allows people to figure out what they want to do with their lives, through a vast range of subjects, rather than deciding that you want to pursue a single avenue immediately after sitting the Leaving Cert and having little real-world experience at 18 years of age.

The contempt with which Arts degrees are treated is a tiresome trope, and parents would do well to allow their kids to consider it as a degree.

Caolán McManus, Killoe, Co Longford: 'Our workload in languages is more demanding than that of degrees with tougher entry requirements'

I’m actually still completing my BA degree at NUI Galway - I’ll be starting my final year studying French and Spanish this September, all going well. I chose the BA (Joint-Honours) in NUIG as I’ve always loved Galway City, and after school I wanted to study French.

The BA was the only way of studying French as a language in its own right in Galway, so four years later here I am! I coupled it with Spanish on a whim, unsure which subject to also study to degree level, but knowing my knowledge of French would help me in acquiring Spanish. It’s a decision which has shaped me and my career path!

The skills I learned in Arts benefited me greatly while on placement in Spain - time management and organisational skills for managing class time, creating resources and planning, and the leadership skills I gained translated well in trying to make Spanish Junior Cert students interested in the succinct dynamics of the English language, as did being patient.

My one regret regarding my Arts degree is not choosing Italian as my third subject in first year. I’ve heard so many good things about the course and department, and it would have been nice to have at least a basic knowledge of it after one year. My advice to future students is thoroughly research your courses before you commit to one.

Be motivated from day one - turn up to class and get involved in debates and discussions; this will help you learn. Pace yourself - you’ll need to in order to cope with the demanding workload. Despite the flack we get in Arts, it’s very much academically rigorous - often our workload in languages is more demanding than that of degrees with tougher entry requirements.

Robyn Hamilton, Co Dublin: 'I finished up with no better idea of what I ultimately wanted to do compared to when I started'

I recently turned 27 years old and I did my Leaving Cert in 2010. I currently work as a Content Marketing Specialist at a price comparison website based in Dublin.

Eight years ago when I was contemplating filling out my CAO form, I had no idea what career path I wanted to take - I knew I liked writing, and I had a flair for languages, but that was pretty much all I knew. Going to university was a given for me, and two years following the economic crash, I got the same advice everywhere I turned: “stay in education as long as possible - there are no jobs out there and there won’t be for a long time!”

I knew that I wanted to go to college in Dublin and secondly, going to Trinity was a top priority for me. So I sat down and read the TCD, UCD and DIT prospectuses cover to cover and picked out courses that looked vaguely appealing, with Trinity courses making the top of the list.

I chose mainly arts courses and a few science ones but no business ones as I had some sort of allergy to anything remotely business-sounding at the time. In the end, I got my second choice, which was French and Film Studies (after English and Film Studies), which probably worked out for the better as I now have a second language.

Though often perceived as such, my course wasn’t a total doss. The most valuable things I took at the end of my four years were the ability to think and analyse critically, as well as the self-discipline to research topics and projects thoroughly on my own.

Given the chance of a do-over, I would choose the same course again - I loved it! But what about my career you ask? Well, it was at the end of my arts degree that I ran into problems. I finished up with no better idea of what I ultimately wanted to do compared to when I started. It took me a whole year to figure out where to channel my skills into an outlet in which I might actually make a living.

It was a very frustrating time in my life, where it felt like undergraduate degrees (at least as far as arts degrees were concerned) were a dime a dozen, and no employer was going to look at me without a Master’s or more.

So that’s exactly what I did. I decided to do a Master’s degree in Advertising in DIT, and it was only after I graduated that I felt some measure of confidence when applying for jobs.

I’d say there’s a lot to be said for abandoning creative courses in favour of ones that lead to better job growth. The path I chose meant that I wasn’t able to start on a proper career path until I turned 25. Having said all of this, as I noted above, if I could do it all again, I would have chosen the same path.

Emily G, Co Dublin: 'We are supposed to be the land of saints and scholars, yet we do little to support the arts'

I studied Archaeology and Art History in UCD for my undergraduate degree, I then went on to complete an MA in Art History at UCD as well. I graduated this MA in 2016. Now at age 23, I am fully employed in the museum sector. Since then, I have worked in the National Gallery, EPIC immigration museum and freelance for Sotheby’s.

Though people tend to scoff at the idea of doing an arts degree, I am not even a year graduated and I am carving a career for myself in the arts sector. I am not the only one in my class either, I have friends around the world working in the arts, including one in the Guggenheim in Venice. I am lucky as I have extremely supportive parents who are confident in my ability to succeed no matter what, so I received no judgment for pursuing the arts. My classmates were not all so lucky. A lot of people look down on the arts, often using the worn-out excuse that “you’ll never get a job”.

It’s difficult at times, especially in a country like Ireland that has let a lot of its cultural institutions down in the past few years, neglecting them financially, but it is rewarding to work in the cultural and creative sector. It’s a sad truth but, as is the case with a lot of other occupations, a lot of young aspiring arts students are being forced to emigrate to countries that value the arts more than Ireland. In the rest of Europe, it is a lot easier to get a job in museums and galleries than here.

I understand that a lot of my classmates and colleagues are frustrated with the lack of appreciation from the Government here; I feel the same at times. I think that the educational systems in Ireland are catered to those who are mathematically and scientifically inclined. It’s disappointing because we are supposed to be the land of saints and scholars, yet we do little to support the arts. The Leaving Cert is a test of memory and does not support creativity or opinionated, autonomous thought. This notion that you can only be successful if you do a course in science or business is ridiculous. If you are creative, if you are passionate about the subjects you love, whether that be history or art, you can be successful.

Do not allow yourself to swayed by other’s judgments of your choices. I can’t imagine going back and doing anything else in college; I really don’t think I would want to. My advice to any young person considering the arts - don’t listen to anyone telling you you won’t succeed. It is possible to make a career in the arts, you just need to push yourself.

Ethel Crowley: 'My Arts degree helped me to think for myself'

My Arts degree helped me to think for myself and to unthink the Catholic propaganda that passed for my primary and secondary “education”. I got hooked and went on to do a PhD in sociology!