State of the Union

  • Keeping our commissioner without Lisbon

    September 6, 2009 @ 10:54 am | by Jamie

     

    I’ve just arrived back from an EU foreign ministers meeting in Sweden where it was clear that everyone is getting very nervous about the second Lisbon treaty referendum.

    I interviewed Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt- president of the European Council- on the fringes of the meeting where he admitted that the Swedes are working on a contingency plan in the event of a no vote. He also gave a frank assessment of what is likely to happen if we deal a final death blow to the Lisbon treaty. (interview here)

      According to Reinfeldt, a no vote would be respected by the Union and the Nice treaty would prevail. And, contrary to some of the exaggerated claims of yes campaigners, the sky wouldn’t immediately fall on Ireland’s head. It is the EU as a whole that would be damaged as the endless navel-gazing EU institutional debate continues to divert attention from other important issues such as climate change.

    But it was his comments on how to cope with the stipulation in Nice- that the number of commissioners must be less than the number of states in the next EU executive- that were most interesting. He said a “26 plus one” plan is favoured by diplomats and the probable solution. This would see 26 states retaining their commissioner and the 27th state getting the plum job of EU foreign affairs chief instead of a commissioner.  

    The political reality, according to Reinfeldt, is that no member state wants to lose its commissioner even if Lisbon cannot enter into force and the EU must continue with the Nice treaty. The “26 plus one” plan is likely to fly in the event of a no vote as many states would agree to swap their right to a low profile post in the EU executive, such as commissioner for multilingualism, to obtain the high profile foreign affairs job.

    Another interesting comment from the Swedish prime minister was that the political deal agreed last December on the size of the commission to allow all member states to retain a commissioner may not last forever. “We might in the future get back to this discussion. What if we keep on enlarging?” admitted Mr Reinfeldt, who warned that the question of the efficiency of the commission will re-emerge when there are 30 states or more in the EU.

     Reinfeldt is right on both counts, of course. But his Swedish frankness may not go down well with the Government, who are running their Lisbon campaign on a theme of “vote yes to keep your commissioner”. Revealing four weeks before polling that there is likely no immediate threat to an Irish commissioner, even if we vote no to Lisbon, is the type of honest political assessment so rarely displayed during referendum campaigns in Ireland.

      Scaremongering is emerging as a key tactic on both sides of the second Lisbon debate with yes campaigners arguing Ireland’s entire economic and political future is at risk while no campaigners warn Lisbon will introduce abortion and lead to a deluge of migrants. If only we could import a little bit of Swedish rationalism to our debates surely the quality of our democracy would be much higher.

  • 27 Comments »

    1.
    September 6, 2009
    2:17 pm

    But surely the problem is that the Yes side do not actually want a debate. The plan really was quite simple after the last referendum. Smear the No side with accusations of “lies” (while never specifying actually the detail of the supposed lies and who actually told them). Set up straw men and knock them down, using words and claims never actually made by anyone. And then make sure that the media would give less coverage to the No side by such spurious claims. Debate is debate. In the early 90s in the UK, those who claimed that the Maastricht opt outs might be threatened later were described as “liars”. Those opt outs were threatened within months. Opinions as to what might or might not happen as a result of handing over more power to the EU are not lies, just opinions. And it may well be that if the No camp made a similar claim to the Swedish Premier, they might be accused of “lies” and Irish state radio and tv asked not to give them coverage…

    Comment by Damian Hockney
    2.
    September 6, 2009
    5:30 pm

    The cat is out of the bag on the Commissioinership and the no camp should make sure it stays that way. No to Lisbon.

    Comment by Brian Boru
    3.
    September 7, 2009
    11:48 am

    I was fully supportive of Ireland’s membership of the EU.I felt that the mandarins in Brussells would apply the rules and help the Irish to manage their economy diligently.When the President of the European Central Bank cautioned Ireland that it’s economy was overheating, the then Finance Minister McCreevy all but told him to ‘Eff Off’.
    Bertie Ahern then rewarded McCreevy’s bold statement of independence with his reward, a job as Commissioner in the EU. ‘Up yours’ he effectively said to the EU.What dissapointed me most was that Europe did not reject McCreevy.
    They did not care because Ireland represents just 1% of the EU’s GDP.They don’t care about us, why should we care about the Lisbon Treaty?

    Comment by Bob
    4.
    September 7, 2009
    1:54 pm

    You yourself are being hyperbolic Jamie. The government is running its campaign primarily on the economy and jobs.

    I don’t work for small Irish company like the Irish Times. I work with a large Irish practice that works with multinational organisations.

    We sold this country as a gateway to Europe and a place where english speaking resources could be located. Rejecting Lisbon damages our links to influence EU policy which has a massive effect on how services and products are dealt with across the 27 member states.

    Both sides are highlighting the merits of their respective positions but if you look in detail at the arguments and shrill prognostications of the no side I am surprised you are capable of writing a blog worthy of Cóir or McCreevy.

    Comment by robespierre
    5.
    September 7, 2009
    4:33 pm

    Robespierre I respectfully disagree. We are not voting on EU membership, which will continue after a no vote. Denmark didn’t suffer from voting no to the Euro. Neither did Switzerland from not joining the EU. But in any case, I favour EU membership and there is no way to throw us out. I wish we could throw the Euro elites out though who are disrespecting democracy in Ireland, France and Holland. It’s them who are isolated in Europe, not us.

    Comment by Brian Boru
    6.
    September 7, 2009
    5:46 pm

    Look Intel, Ryanair et al. are not some giant conspiracy. They are practical people. I listened to Eddie O’Connor and Liam Griffin yesterday and the Ireland for Europe launch.

    These are all decent ordinary businessmen who have a vision of a rock in the North Eastern Atlantic impaling itself on an academic argument. Most of my colleagues across Europe are still baffled by the extent of the scepticism in Ireland.

    I believe that we do need a referendum on our continued membership of the EU and that we also need to amend the constitution to allow the democratically elected government to be able to negotiate with the EU without running referenda that fix a ne plus ultra to the march of the union to paraphrase Parnell.

    I personally favour a federal Europe.

    Comment by robespierre
    7.
    September 8, 2009
    1:29 am

    I’d really like to know if Liam Griffin or Eddie O’Sullivan have actually read the Lisbon Treaty. I know that Denis Hickie didn’t at the time he was on “The Right Hook” on Newstalk calling for a yes vote, because he was asked by George Hook and admitted he hadn’t. The yes side are not talking about what’s in the Treaty, but rather about benefits of EU membership. The reality is that we are not voting on EU membership and are defending the rights of the French and Dutch peoples to have their no votes respected. It is a shameful decision the member state governments took to disregard the spirit of those no votes and ours.

    Regarding Intel and Ryanair, context has to be understood. Intel is appealing a fine of €1.04 billion in the European Court of First Instance and what better way to get the EU to go easy on them than supporting the Lisbon Treaty. Likewise, Ryanair wants to takeover Aer Lingus again and doesn’t want the Commission vetoing it again. When all the rich and powerful come together, you should remember Adam Smith’s old adage of why the people of the same trade come together. “Yes for Europe” is no longer good enough as a reason to surrender Irish sovereignty that countless generations sacrificed life and limb for over 700 years.

    Comment by Brian Boru
    8.
    September 8, 2009
    2:40 am

    The ideal of an independent self-sufficient Irish Republic was a noble 19th century but flawed romantic dream. The current Irish state doesn’t even include the entire island and a closed self-sufficient economy proved to be a disaster! The lies of the “No” were obvious to anyone who looked into the facts; Abortion? Conscription? Forced Taxation? EU Dictates? We elect representatives on our behalf to govern for us. The European Union is primarily a treaty between governments to govern better. I am adamantly pro-European and pro EU.

    Comment by Brian Bóruma
    9.
    September 8, 2009
    10:06 am

    You are entitled to your view Brian Boru. Narrow nationalism is present across Europe. When I lived in France Charles Pasqua and Jean Marie Le Pen made precisely the points that you make.

    As you well know there are two ways to read law. By its letter and by its spirit. As this treaty refers to its antecedents one cannot ignore the milestone achievements of previous European Treaty in helping to underline a peaceful continent, stand tall in the face of communist totalitarianism, expand human rights, guarantee social progress, promote employment, promote trade, promote wealth distribution through the regional policy and the CAP, open European borders, develop common safety standards for goods and services, develop consumer law…

    You might believe that holding onto your egg and eating it is a nicer breakfast that eating half it and getting some brown bread from your neighbour in return. Cooperation has enriched Ireland culturally as well as socially and economically. Enhanced cooperation will help advance this cause even further.

    I know you do not agree.

    Comment by robespierre
    10.
    September 8, 2009
    7:26 pm

    Robespierre, it is not “narrow nationalism” to want to protect national independence. If we give it away, then all those freedom fighters from 1916 and 1798 died for nothing. That is a gross betrayal of our ancestors.

    Comment by Brian Boru
    11.
    September 8, 2009
    9:33 pm

    Robespierre, with a nom de plume like that I should be wery of criticising you., but here goes… Please do not accuse Brian Boruma of “narrow nationalism” and linking him to Jean-Marie Le Pen..He may not be familiar with our right-wing fellow countryman. I am, and think you owe him an appology. I have never come across anyone in Ireland that can be linked to this man. His name was invoked by the yes-siders in Lisbon 1…and look where that got them.

    Comment by Paul Henri Cadier
    12.
    September 9, 2009
    12:48 am

    Sorry Brian Boruma but your argument lacks validity. Nobody is asking for a ‘self-sufficient’ Ireland – if we vote No to Lisbon, we’ll still be part of the EU, we’ll trade with Europe as we have to date, life will go on as usual – it’s not a showstopper!
    I can never listen to anyone who says they are “adamantly pro-European and pro EU”, this suggests to me that you will just agree to anything that the EU puts in front of you, and not really examine the current issue. Do you even know what is contained in the Lisbon Treaty?
    Looking to the past, such arguments as ‘Europe has been good to us’ etc etc etc, is no basis for deciding on the future.

    Comment by lshields
    13.
    September 9, 2009
    2:56 am

    Robespierre, there’s something terribly ironic about on the one hand claiming that the EU has fought against totalitarianism on the one hand, while then refusing to accept the no votes in France and Holland and attempting to force on them the institutional provisions they rejected. Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.

    Comment by Brian Boru
    14.
    September 9, 2009
    9:10 am

    Paul Henri, I was not referring to Le Pen in his most common and repellent form (domestic policy) but rather in his enunciations on matters European which tended to focus on La France d’Abord. It was this chauvinism in the original 1914 meaning of the word that I was referring to. I was not calling no campaigners fascists - if that was the impression then I apologise unreservedly.

    Arthur Griffith, Micheal Collins and Eamon deVelera in addition to other leaders of the fabled 1916 rising were internationalists. Ireland has had a history of looking externally to validate its soveriegnty. That is why deVelera toured the United States, why Griffith wanted Ireland to model itself on Hungary with independent state linked by a common crown to the UK (in the Austro-Hungarian sense).

    Brian Boru, if you peruse documents on foreign policy volume 1 by Fanning, O’Halpin and others you will see that your arguments about 1916 leaders are fallacious. Garrett Fitzgerald made that point eloquently in his columb on Saturday.

    Secondly, it is not undemocratic to ask somebody a questions twice. As you may or may not be aware, there is an old (and true) saying in sales which is no today does not mean no tomorrow. Times and facts change.

    The facts have changed, individual treaties to assuage the fears from the Lisbon 1 referendum will be lodged with the UN.

    You sound like you believe in isolationism. I do not. I do believe isolationist policy to be ruinous, backward and narrow. I make no apology for this.

    Comment by robespierre
    15.
    September 9, 2009
    6:55 pm

    Robespierre seems quite happy with the Lisbon Treaty section 11, which forces national governments to implement any Brussels laws. He also must be ok with bringing back of the death penalty (ECHR Article 2:2 footnote, which will be brought into law by Lisbon), ECJ case 6/64 (acquis communautaire) and the banning of political parties which are not pro EU.
    Pretty much of an authoritarian totalitarian then, like your namesake, eh, Robespierre? He came a bit of a cropper, though, didn’t he?

    Comment by Barbara
    16.
    September 10, 2009
    1:26 am

    “The facts have changed, individual treaties to assuage the fears from the Lisbon 1 referendum will be lodged with the UN”.

    The ECJ doesn’t respect the UN. In September 3rd 2008 they annulled an EU regulation implementing UN Security Council Resolution 1267 freezing the assets of the Al Barakaat International Foundation, which is linked to Al Qaida. In annulling EU Council Regulation (EC) No 881/2002 of 27 May 2002 implementing UNSC 1267, the ECJ said that First, the Court defined the UN Security Council resolution as an “international agreement”. To establish its competence, the ECJ argued that “an international agreement cannot affect the allocation of powers fixed by the Treaties or, consequently, the autonomy of the Community legal system”. It follows, according to the Court, that “the obligations imposed by an international agreement cannot have the effect of prejudicing the constitutional principles of the EC Treaty, which include the principle that all Community acts must respect fundamental rights.”

    So there you have it Robespierre. That is what the ECJ thinks of “international agreements”. They can be cast aside if the ECJ thinks they contradict EU law. And the ECJ ruled that in this case, the UNSC resolution 1267 did so contravene EU law. It underlines that the guarantees are worthless because the ECJ has a questionable record on respecting the authority of the UN.

    “You sound like you believe in isolationism. I do not. I do believe isolationist policy to be ruinous, backward and narrow. I make no apology for this.”

    I am an internationalist, but I will always put Ireland’s interests first and I make no apology for that. If the men and women of 1916 were prepared to give their lives for our independence, then I believe we have a duty to defend that independence and so prove worthy of the sacrifice that was made to secure it. I want to remain in the EU, but on our terms. Submission is not cooperation and patriotism is not isolation. If we wanted to be part of an empire, we would have stayed in one. We fought in 1916 not to swap empires, but to establish an independent state that could cooperate with other nations while retaining our sovereignty. And I have supported the European project until Lisbon, because I believed that the Single Market in goods and services is one example of a policy area in which international institutions can accomplish more than member states acting alone. But that does not mean that what applies to the Single Market applies in sensitive areas where Lisbon surrenders the veto, including Justice and Home Affairs and energy. I do not want nuclear power in Ireland. We have lived with the spectre of an accident at Sellafield for 50 years and we don’t want one in Ireland. The more you centralise power, the more out of touch it becomes with local communities. An Ireland with a 0.8% vote on laws on the Council of Ministers will have little influence in Europe. We certainly would not be at “the heart of Europe” as claimed by the elites.

    It is the political elites who are isolated. They refuse to accept the democratically-expressed wishes of the French, Dutch and Irish peoples. You say our concerns have been addressed. Well we will see. One thing we do know though that had the French people been given a referendum on Lisbon, they would have rejected it. How do we know that? Because Sarkozy said so:

    “A referendum now would bring Europe into danger. There will be no Treaty if we had a referendum in France, which would again be followed by a referendum in the UK.” — Nicolas Sarkozy, French President, The Daily Telegraph, 14th November 2007″

    Comment by Brian Boru
    17.
    September 11, 2009
    1:30 am

    Brian Boru,

    Would you ever consider running for the Dail seat?

    You would make a welcome change to the Finna Failures who obviously hvent a clue,, and it will be me, my grand-children and several generations paying for the FF mess.

    Comment by Peter
    18.
    September 13, 2009
    6:57 am

    Irish people you are our new hope to say NO to this technocratic and anti-democratic Europe.
    We have other French rejected the TEC in 2005 and now they want us to impose a new name. Be our voice !
    Long live freedom, long live the national sovereignty!

    Comment by Un français
    19.
    September 14, 2009
    3:15 am

    Shame on the Irish government ,they have chosen to ignore the democratic vote of the people of Ireland .
    This treaty is a shambles ,the yes campaign is a litany of deceit and no more than a smear campaign against the no vote.
    People of Ireland ,stand up once more and be counted ,reconfirm that no means no !!!

    Comment by Mark Dunne
    20.
    September 15, 2009
    10:50 am

    I see, so basically after reading this article, if Ireland votes no, we all lose a commissioner.

    Comment by geraghd
    21.
    September 16, 2009
    9:02 pm

    The Irish people must vote No once again to this Treaty that takes away our democracy and binds us forever to a political union where we will not have a say in what happens to us.

    It would be better altogether if we were out of the EU and into EFTA. Other small countries in EFTA can manage so there shouldn’t be any problem. Edward Heath deceived us when he took us into what was supposed to be a common market for trade and hid the fact that it was eventually to become a political union. Prime Ministers since, have also deceived us.

    The money saved by coming out of the EU could go towards improving health care, education, housing and other things. Another most important benefit would be tight control of borders and our right to refuse immigrants unless they could speak the language, had a skilled job waiting for which an Irish candidate couldn’t be found. We would not have benefit tourists seeking a cosy stress-free life on benefits that our taxpayers have paid for.

    Comment by Isabel
    22.
    September 17, 2009
    9:20 pm

    I agree that Ireland votes on whether giving democracy away with this referendum. The only winners of a yes would be the large EU economies.
    But voting no is not a vote for leaving the union. Rejecting the Lisbon treaty does not end membership and it does not make the EU fall into pieces.

    Comment by Frank
    23.
    September 18, 2009
    2:57 pm

    Jamie, I’m afraid I don’t share your apparent confidence that Swedish PM Reinfeldt has found a loophole for dealing with the Nice requirement to reduce by at least one the number of Commissioners in the event of the Lisbon Treaty being rejected.

    The ‘plum job of EU foreign affairs chief’ to which you refer is in fact the High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy introduced way back with the Amsterdam Treaty. As you know, the post is currently occupied, until he retires next month, by Spaniard Javier Solana.

    The closest Mr Solana gets to the European Commission is his office in the Justus Lipsius building – across the road from the Berlaymont – where, whatever about his other fancy titles, his ‘day job’ is Secretary General of the Council of Ministers. It would only be under the Lisbon Treaty that the holder of the post would become a Commission Vice President and thus part of the Commission’s decision making structure.

    I think that most Member States, far from coveting the ‘plum job’ of Secretary General of the Council, would prefer to have a Commissioner for office supplies, if that meant having a seat, and a vote, around the Commission table on the top floor of the Berlaymont.

    Comment by Ciaran
    24.
    September 25, 2009
    8:48 am

    After watching the Primetime debate last night, I am convinced that voting no is the better option. I couldn’t Michael O’Leary’s was on for one and his arguments were completely knocked back by Declan Ganly. Whether you like or dislike Declan, he knows the treaty. All MO’L could say was he was a failed politician over and over. The Yes Campaign has pureply been based on fear this time. Why has no one fully explained why we are having a second vote and how this is even possible?

    Comment by Ciaran O'
    25.
    September 25, 2009
    8:21 pm

    I´m from Germany and like 500 Millions Europeans I can`t vote about the Lisbon treaty. You are only 3 million people who can vote about freedom and souvereignity of the European countries and only you have the chance to say NO.

    A German song for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no_Pv7McXVg

    Comment by Andreas
    26.
    October 1, 2009
    1:50 pm

    The Irish government and the EU have poured out propaganda encouraging the voters to vote Yes. They have made no attempt to inform the voters of the true facts. Please listen to this talk on why it is extremely important to vote No.
    www.irishufology.net/ and click on the link for the talk.
    .2009 Sep 21:- SPECIAL FREE SHOW ‘LISBON TREATY TALK’ BY ‘Sweeps’-Find out how to Save Ireland and other nation states in europe from a Federalized Europe. Why Vote NO? click here to listen or Click here for mp3 verson.

    The talk is excellent and the speaker so clear that anyone can understand every word. I have downloaded the MP3 so that I can listen again at my leisure. It is one of the clearest talks I have heard and leaves in no doubt whatsoever as to why we need a No result.

    Comment by Isabel
    27.
    October 1, 2009
    2:12 pm

    26 Andreas

    Good post, Andreas, and I thought the link was brilliant - very catchy.

    Comment by Isabel

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