Surely it’s as much about the establishment trying to get a good bargain and drive supplier prices down, as much as it is about the customer doing the same thing?
If some establishments are able to charge lower prices for similar quality, then what exactly would you be paying the difference for? Having a look at neighbouring competition (especially in smaller towns) is a good place to start – it seems to work in the city with many places driving prices down to try and beat the competition.

There is a natural level for everything. Some restaurants are still above that level, some are at it, and others have delved below it in the hope of acquiring customers. Only time will tell which policy is correct.

I do think however though, that if you want to drive prices down to peanuts, then you will be served peanuts.

We should definately not stop haggling and certainly stay looking for bargains, even in the good times, how long will it take us to realise that we have been ripped off in this countryfor so long, and then went back for more, we have got to realise that competition is a good thing and that today retailers and businesses who gained in the good times have to go by the will of the people, their customers. I always ask it this your best recession price and a pause is ofter your best line of defence, if they want your business they will reduce their price, the trick is to wait and get back to them. They in their chosen businesses can also avail of the good bargains that are available today just like the rest of us and therefore reducing their costs.
Breda Keane

At Georgina Campbell Guides we consider this argument to be similar to the supermarket vs farmer argument. Do you want to pay the lowest prices possible for produce from God knows where and drive the farmers in Ireland who have a higher cost base out of business by continuing to demand lower prices? Or would you rather pay a little more for higher quality Irish produce, support local farmers etc? These guys can’t compete with cheap imports, it simply isn’t a level playing field.

In this respect Tony Allwright is speaking nonsense, all businesses have a cost/sales point beyond which it isn’t worth being in business. Many businesses are today just breaking even, a slight tip beyond that and they are insolvent. I know in our own business there are no more savings we can make and are as efficient as we possibly can be, speak to the SFA and you will find that many businesses are the same.

What Conor failed to include from the press release was that we feel the government should be doing more to help the hospitality industry by reducing VAT, rates etc. These savings can then be passed on to the consumer. All businesses have costs which they have to cover and they also have to make money (or why else be in business?).

The bottom line is this, if people keep demanding lower prices something has to give – whether that is quality, provenance, or businesses failing. You simply can’t offer something for nothing in business (bar a smile & good service).

Do you want to eat battery hens? if you do then fine, personally I’d rather pay higher prices for free range and/or organic. But you simply CAN’T demand battery hen prices when ordering free range/organic because it is a more costly raw material. This is our argument, if you want quality you have to pay for it or it will end up not being available later on as businesses close and the food industry will move backwards.

It is time that people realise that there is a price for everything that represents value to the customer and a reasonable living for the restaurant – we are at that point in many cases. Those that charge less are either running a loss making business or using inferior produce that is being touted as something it isn’t.

Bob Nixon
Director Georgina Campbell Guides

To Bob,
Your argument would be all well and good if Ireland were like Japan, a place where you really do get what you pay for. A piece of sushi can cost anything from 1 euro to 25 or even 30 or 40 (yes, a piece, not a whole meal) and the higher the price, the better it is (invariably).
But what about all the places here which charge outrageous prices for mediocre food (and that’s a generous description). I was at a posh restaurant the other day (thankfully I wasn’t paying) – I won’t say the name but it’s in a fancy hotel next door to the RDS. A starter of scallops cost 16 euros and consisted of precisely 3 scallops – that’s 5 euros per scallop. Mains were at least 30 euros and you had to pay 4 or 5 euros extra for each tiny “side order” of (bland) vegetables or potatoes. And the service was amaterish in the extreme. They constantly gave people the wrong dishes and kept forgetting to fill up wine glasses when they were empty (why do they have to take away the wine for god’s sake???).
It’s all very well to charge Claridges prices, but you have to give something in return. At their prices this kind of carry-on is completely unjustifiable, If their claims that they have to charge high prices are genuine, then they have to make sure that the food and service they provide are perfect.

We are not suggesting that people stop seeking value, we are simply saying they should learn to recognise what value is and to question it all the time.

A five star hotel has the highest cost base of any hospitality establishment. They have to make money, they are a business. Therefore they have to charge a lot more than another business with a lower cost base. Therefore “value” in a five star hotel has a far higher price bracket than that of a market stall.

To be honest I feel it is unacceptable to get poor food in a five star establishment but that is a different argument altogether. Did you get “value” Jonathan? Not at all by the sounds of it and this is all we are asking people to consider. Go where there is value on food with quality ingredients, cheap food generally means it is cheap in every meaning of the word unless you are eating somewhere with a very, very low cost base e.g. Periwinkles from a van.

So Tom we are not suggesting that people pay more, we are asking that they recognise what constitutes value. A hand dived scallop will cost significantly more than one that is not. The reason is pretty obvious. But if someone is selling hand dived scallops for a pittance then I would be very dubious about their claims.

If you want to eat quality produce you have to be prepared to pay the price and people avoiding restaurants because the one down the road is doing it for a fiver cheaper may be missing the point in many cases. Why is it less expensive? How is it costing less? Does it taste better?

The other issue here is are you eating to fill your belly or are you eating to enjoy it? Do you care what you are eating? If not then none of this argument is of your concern anyway and you should just eat the cheapest you can find.

We are just asking people to consider what they are eating and what constitutes value. If they keep asking for lower prices but expect quality produce then this simply isn’t possible, something will give, most likely quality & provenance of ingredients and/or these businesses closing and the principles they practice becoming a thing of the past. We will then be back in the 70s/80s.

We believe that the government can stimulate the industry through a reduction in VAT rates and commercial rates, even if only temporarily. Our minimum wage has a huge part to play on the price of products in restaurants, as do our high insurance costs, waste, energy etc. All of these are out of the hands of the restaurateurs but if they were cut the savings would surely be passed on to the consumer.

I think there’s an argument for both sides really. Some places areally are overcharging for what you get – a trendy restaurant on George’s St once charged us €5.50 for a desert named ‘broken chocolate’, intrigued we ordered it and found that it was a saucer of….broken chocolate. CRAP broken chocolate at that.
On the other hand there are some places that manage to produce good food wtih good products and reasonable prices i.e. Green 19 on Camden St – i go there quite often and the quality is amazing, with good choice. It’s always really busy too, which must be a testament to it’s good value & good quality.

Patrick you can easily compare service etc and standards of food between various countries but it is very difficult to compare value without being fully aware of the costs involved for each country. I had a meal for two in Lanzarote and thought it was a bargain at €50, when I thought about it this was far from the truth. Their VAT was c. 5% if memory serves me right, they owned the building for generations so had no lease/mortgage to pay, they have a season that lasts practically all year, their wage costs were a mere fraction of here as were their rates & insurance costs, they buy fish directly from fisherman for a pittance etc, etc. This €50 meal was poor value when compared to similar in a Dublin restaurant that has all the costs outlined above taken into account.

Tom you are completely missing the point, this isn’t about moving anywhere on the value chain and you have been completely sucked in by the price element of the argument. I could eat out ten times at a takeway at a fiver a piece for €50, but do I want to? We would rather spend €50 on a meal with quality Irish ingredients and eat out once than eat out twice at €20 a meal made of battery chicken, farmed fish from cess pools in Asia etc. If you care about the quality and provenance of ingredients then you have to be prepared to pay for it but if you aren’t then fair enough.

The point is if people care about quality ingredients they have to be prepared to stump up for it. If they don’t then this argument isn’t for them. A great example is if you see “Fish & Chips” in a restaurant, there is some really nasty, cheap fish farmed in Asia doing the rounds and being sold as “Fish & Chips” (if there is no named fish I would recommend you ask what it is), now you can’t compare this to Fresh Cod & Chips as they are completely different products. But some consumers see only “Fish & Chips” and the differing prices and their mind is made up that one is a rip off, the more costly, quality product is deemed as the rip off. This is ludicrous and the rip off is really the cheap one being sold at a far higher mark up. One fish has been brought up in a hormone, anti biotic filled cess pit while the other is a beautiful, natural, healthy wild fish.

All we are saying is to question what actually represents value by thinking about what you are eating and buying and if you are driven by quality then seek it out at a good price, but a realistic price, if something is too good to be true then it generally is.

There is no point in Bob Nixon explaining about good food. Irish people do not have a tradition of eating out. I often come across people who tell me about the great value in countries like Spain and France but when you quiz them on what they got, you find they are not comparing like with like. I eat out quite a lot in Ireland and I love eating out when on holidays and I can tell you that most European restaurants are similar in price for comparable quality. For instance on a recent holiday in Galicia, a bottle of Martin Codax Albarinho (local wine) was exactly the same price (€22) as in a local restaurant in Ireland. When you take into account the duty, wages etc the Irish restaurant is giving remarkably good value.Those that know,know.