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  • irishtimes.com - Posted: August 18, 2009 @ 9:29 pm

    A few reservations

    Conor Pope

    Like it or loathe it, it can’t be denied that Irish Rail has been running some exceptionally good value-for-money online offers over the course of the summer, with one-way tickets on all intercity routes costing just €10.

    The company clearly wants to encourage more automated online bookings in order to reduce staff numbers selling actual tickets. Another carrot being offered to rail users who book online is a relatively new seat reservation system which is supposed to allow people book ahead and show up at the last minute safe in the knowledge that a seat will be waiting for them.

    If only.

    Across continental Europe rail reservations systems work pretty well but in Ireland when you book ahead – particularly at peak times on the most popular routes – there’s every chance that instead of finding an empty seat with your name on it you will be confronted by a large, red-faced, cider swilling man and no sign of an Irish Rail employees to move him along.

    A number of readers have contacted us to tell of furious seat allocation rows breaking out in carriages as the solitary Irish Rail employee on board skulks as far away from the action as possible.

    Mark Gleeson of the Rail Users Action Group says the absence of real people to police the reservation system “when you actually get on the train, is letting people down. Onboard staff do not want to challenge people sitting in seats which are reserved for others,” he says. “That’s if you are lucky enough to find a staff member on the trains. From what I can see, as a result of cutbacks the staff who are supposed to ensure everything works smoothly have been pulled off the trains.”

    He says that the Cork-Dublin route is the only one with a dedicated “train host” whose job it is to manage the reservation system and travellers using the other trains on the intercity network are effectively left to police the system themselves which frequently leads to anarchy.

    Irish Rail spokesman Barry Kenny admits that “it wouldn’t be the case that there will always be someone on hand” to assist someone with a reserved seat or to ask the cider swilling gent to move along because “we have to take account of the cost environment” He expresses the hope that a more mature passenger body, as they grow more familiar with the reservation system, might be able to look after themselves.

    Kenny’s optimism about self regulation is difficult to understand, says Gleeson, particularly when the technology is frequently found wanting. “The seat reservation system assumes the train actually has the seat you have booked,” he says. “So let’s say you book seat number 67 but the train you were due to take breaks down and the carriage in the substitute only has 58 seats, that leaves you without a seat and no-one to help you out.”

    Kenny accepts that when trains are replaced at the last minute then reservation numbers don’t match the seat numbers but he insists that this is a rare occurrence and staff members will be on hand to help people find alternate seats. “It is not a perfect arrangement, I accept that but it does work well in most circumstances”

    And if it doesn’t work and you are left standing all the way to Galway despite having reserved a ticket weeks in advance? The good news is you are entitled to a full refund if Irish Rail does not deliver its side of the bargain.

  • 33 Comments »

    1.
    August 18, 2009
    10:42 pm

    Conor, the times for these special ten euro fares are extremely limited! You truncated your sentence! Surely you meant to write “with one way tickets on all intercity routes costing just ten euro at very particular times and on particular trains and excluding busy GAA weekends” :-)

    Aside from that, there is another huge failing in the now three (I think) years old on line reservation system (not new by any stretch and still as crappy to use as ever). The staff on the train cannot override reservations for passengers who didn’t turn up or who catch a later train.

    I reserved a seat once but decided not to sit in it (as an experiment). I fully expected that once I had departed my embarkation station, a rail reservation person would walk through the carriage, see which seats were atcually occupied as per reservations and then if the seat was empty, they would be able to override the reservation and blank the name over the seat so that some one else could sit there once the train pulled into the next station.

    People vacate their reserved seats and choose to sit in unreserved seats all the time. Irish rail never frees these seats up again, not for the entire journey.

    Also, what is with Irish rail penalising pensioners? Surely the elderly should be able to reserve seats without having to pay for the privilege. They have free travel passes. But the Irish rail website makes them pay six euro to reserve a seat. That is up there with Ryanair’s five euro credit card charge per leg.

    The travel times for these ten euro fares are great ONLY if you are a person who doesn’t work five days a week, monday to friday, normal office hours like 0900 to 1730hrs. They are pretty unappealing if you are that person.

    Worth investigating surely with Irish rail is the absolutely exhorbitant prices for food and drink aboard the train. Captive passengers = huge markups.

    Comment by laura
    2.
    August 19, 2009
    7:52 am

    Long distance train seat reservations should apply for ALL passengers, whether booking at the counter or online. This is the modus operandi in some other countries. Everyone should have a reserved place, particularly for passenger safety reasons. Platform gateway ticket checking should be automated, as it is in the Tube.

    Comment by Niall
    3.
    August 19, 2009
    9:21 am

    I travelled from Limerick to Dublin on the train a few weeks ago. It was my first time on the train in about 4 years. I used the reservation system to book my seat.

    Seemed straight forward enough, and have used such systems many times throughout Europe with work. You get the carriage number and seat number. So it is not my first time using the reservation, and I am not fazed by the system, or by asking people to leave my reserved seat.

    So imagine my surprise when I changed at Limerick Junction onto the Cork Dublin train only to be presented with a number of carriages on the train, and no obvious way of determining which was the one I had booked on. There were names on display over the reserved seats, so I started walking down the train looking for my name….

    I have no doubt that my seat was in one of the carriages somewhere, but I made a judgment call to take the next free seat that was unreserved and sit in it. Although I had gone to the trouble of reserving a seat, and was willing to walk the length of the platform to the assigned carriage, I was not willing to play ‘find my seat’ inside the carriage whilst other passengers were moving slowly along the middle.

    I realize my actions may have resulted in my reserved seat being left un-occupied, but there were sill free un-reserved seats available, so no harm no foul!!!

    Irish Rail….please make your system of carriage identification clearer!!!

    Comment by Will
    4.
    August 19, 2009
    9:56 am

    There is virtually always someone in my seat on the Dublin-Belfast train, but it has never been a “large, red-faced, cider-swilling man playing 21 with his buddies”. In every case it has been some belligerent pensioner who claims not to have noticed the umpteen ‘reservation’ signs and stubbornly stands their ground against all reason.

    Comment by Mark
    5.
    August 19, 2009
    10:58 am

    @Will re “There were names on display over the reserved seats, so I started walking down the train looking for my name…I have no doubt that my seat was in one of the carriages somewhere…” if all seats were reserved by Seat Number, with seats having actual numbers, there wouldn’t be a need for names on paper, nor any need to hunt for such! Definitely a serious rethink needed on Irish Rail’s partial half-cooked seat reservation system!

    Comment by Niall
    6.
    August 19, 2009
    11:17 am

    Easy solution to the instance when someone won’t move from your reserved seat….

    This has worked every time.

    I calmly explain that I have reserved the seat they are sitting in, and ask them to vacate it so that I can sit down. Yes, they may not have noticed, but at this point they are now aware of their oversight.

    If they still do not move, I take out my camera phone to take a photo.

    100% of the time they object to having their photo taken, to which I reply…I am not taking a photo of them, I am taking a photo of the seat that I paid to reserve from Irish Rail.

    I calmly explain that it is not my fault that they choose to sit in it. Or is it my fault that they are deciding to stay seated in my seat after my reservation was explained to them.

    After all, my ticket indicates that it is my seat, and I am going to follow up with Irish rail regarding its unavailability.

    I add that I will have to take a number of photos over time to indicate how long my seat was unavailable for.

    Without fail, they always move out of the seat.

    If they say anything nasty, I just point out that if they feel hard done by, perhaps they should compose a strongly worded letter to Irish Rail explaining that their right to occupy a seat that has been paid for by another customer has been infringed.

    Comment by Will
    7.
    August 19, 2009
    12:00 pm

    I’ve been quite lucky. The one time I’ve reserved a seat, it was occupied by a girl about the same age as me (mid twenties) and she was so mortified that I had to ask her to move, and I so mortified that I had to ask her to move, that we swapped positions rapidlyand rather red-facedly. However, if she had made a fuss about it, there wasn’t sign of any staff around to help which is just ridiculous.

    Comment by Annie
    8.
    August 19, 2009
    12:19 pm

    I use the reservation system all the time and it does irk me that they make no provision for correctly allocating seats. If your local cinema charging €5-10 a ticket can provide ushers then doesn’t seem like it should be beyond the realms of possibility to do the same for tickets costing up to €60. I generally just grab the first seats I see if it’s busy so as to avoid potential conflict but this could be inconveniencing someone who’s unwilling to take a vacant seat with my name on it- hardly an ideal solution.

    Comment by Tom Ennis
    9.
    August 19, 2009
    12:50 pm

    Another error on Irish Rails side regarding their reservation service is on some occasions the carriages do not display any reservations at all. So you cannot ask someone who has taken your prebooked seat to move if its not marked as reserved.

    I gave up reserving seats as the service is clearly not value for money and generally there are vacant seats. Maybe on bank holiday weekends, but as a rule I now avoid it.

    Comment by Sheila,
    10.
    August 19, 2009
    12:55 pm

    @Will Brilliant idea BTW, I will try that one out if I need to :-D

    Comment by Sheila
    11.
    August 19, 2009
    2:02 pm

    Yes, the Irish Rail reservation system is a joke! I along with 7 family members including 2 infants travelled to Dublin from Limerick last week, we had to change at Limerick Junction on the way to Dublin. I had prebooked our seats together but we got to our reserved seats they were already occupied and we pointed this out to the occupants but to no avail. We finally found a seat but some people had to stand! The same on the return journey – our seats were taken. Why dont Irish Rail put signs up to highlight the carriages that with reserved seats!

    Comment by Ann
    12.
    August 19, 2009
    2:07 pm

    My cousin recently missed the Cork/Dublin train for which she had a pre-booked reservation. Presumably she should have been able to board the next train and forgo her reserved seat but instead she was charged another €30 to board the next available train. Anyone else experience this?

    I travel on the Cork/Dublin train several times a month for the past 10 years and could do a PhD paper on Irish Rail inefficiences.

    Comment by Caitriona
    13.
    August 19, 2009
    2:23 pm

    Having recently spent three weeks travelling around Japan by train, it seems that all Irish Rail have to do is ask anyone who has been how they work it over there (this would also save on the cost of a junket for some employees holiday!) They have reserved and non-reserved carriages, so if you want to be guaranteed of a seat you book ahead. Otherwise, you take your chances. It seems simple, it is, and it works!

    Comment by Domhnall Banks
    14.
    August 19, 2009
    2:36 pm

    ‘And if it doesn’t work and you are left standing all the way to Galway despite having reserved a ticket weeks in advance? The good news is you are entitled to a full refund if Irish Rail does not deliver its side of the bargain.’

    so how does one go about getting this refund? anyone tried it?

    Comment by Justin Mason
    15.
    August 19, 2009
    2:49 pm

    @Caitriona; I have experienced the opposite, I booked a seat on a Dublin-Cork train and arrived much earlier than i thought I would be able to arrive at the station. (Heuston).

    My ticket had the date and time of my train printed on it, so I didn’t think i’d be able to board the earlier train. Not only was I able to board the earlier train, but I was able to sit in an empty carriage. The carriage with the reserved seats was absolutely jam packed. The rest of the train empty.

    I don’t think it’s worth the bother of reserving a seat on Dublin-Cork-Dublin trains, they run practically every hour now anyway..

    Irish rail do say that if you reserve a seat for a particular train, then the ticket is non-transferable, so maybe it depends on the person checking the tickets on whether they are going to let you board.

    Re charging another 30 euro to board another train – was this on top of a full fare, 56 euro ticket or was it on top of a promotional fare that wouldn’t apply to all trains? If it was on top of a full fare ticket, I would take this up with Irish rail and failing a reasonable explanation from them, the director of consumer affairs. Irish Rail is not Ryanair, they shouldn’t be fleecing customers in that manner. If they had a system that allowed you to Cancel or Change (dirty words beginning with C) your reservation, then your ticket should be automatically transferable. :-)

    Comment by Laura
    16.
    August 19, 2009
    4:15 pm

    I haven’t travelled by train in Ireland since 1996 (Yes,I have been resident here all that time) Having read these accounts I won’t be getting back on the train any time soon.

    Comment by Garrett
    17.
    August 19, 2009
    5:22 pm

    To be fair Garrett, the service isn’t actually bad. The new carriages are pretty nice, the services largely run on time and the issue of not being able to get seats applies to trains taken at certain times of the day. I regularly take trains to Westport and Portadown and haven’t really had any major issues. The new carriages even have plugs so you can use laptops or portable DVD players to pass the time.
    You’ll get horror stories from time to time and being stuck in a crowded carriage with squalling infants is unpleasant but by and large I would recommend the service to people

    Comment by Tom Ennis
    18.
    August 19, 2009
    5:42 pm

    A number of friends and myself recently travelled from Dublin to Galway and had a standing argument with a group of pensioners who had taken our seats and were unwilling to move even though other seats were available. Eventually when they moved they complained to the Irish Rail employee who then came over to us and told us “what did we expect, we should have turned up early for our Reserved seats”. Pure Irish Rail madness.

    Comment by Ken Lynch
    19.
    August 19, 2009
    5:46 pm

    Barry kenny is so full of it “It is not a perfect arrangement, I accept that but it does work well in most circumstances”
    That is a load of nonsense – the worst thing about the system is that often the person who is in your seat has no idea that the seat is booked because there is nothing there to indicate that. They might well have been able to choose any seat on the train when they arrived nice and early but now all the seats are full so they get pissed off and you get pissed off
    i booked seat 5 times in a row and never once ended up in my seat. I sometimes wander up to the front carraiges a few mins before departure to see all the arguements going on

    for those who are annoyed don’t just complain – do what i did and join Rail Users Ireland (the guy quoted in the article is the spokesperson) – get involved – they are a small organisation and can use help from angry dedicated people!

    Comment by Daniel
    20.
    August 19, 2009
    6:38 pm

    Train seat reservations aren’t just a problem in Ireland.

    Last year we spent six weeks travelling by train through Portugal, Spain, Italy, Switzerland and Germany. We found that in the MAJORITY of our journeys where we made seat reservations, the system didn’t work. Even in those countries which insist that you need a seat reservation for every journey. We experienced being booked into non-existent carriages, finding our reserved seats, sometimes occupied sometimes not, with no indication that they were reserved at all, and once, in Italy, showing our seat reservations to the nice couple occupying our seats where upon they produced their seat reservations for the same seats.

    The only part of the seat reservation systems that consistently worked in these countries was the part where they charged you for the seat reservations.

    Comment by Hamish
    21.
    August 20, 2009
    7:09 am

    You make your reservation, you find your seat and you sit in your seat. One seat, one reservation. If the train breaks down and is replaced and you cannot get a seat, you get to your destination for free. Why isn’t any more simple than that?

    Cut-price seats are only ever going to be on the trains with least demand. Far better now than when to buy a one way ticket you bought a five day return.

    Not perfect, but a lot better than ten years ago.

    Comment by Matthew
    22.
    August 20, 2009
    3:25 pm

    I can add another couple of hitches to this (a) if you decide to reserve a seat but don’t much care about which one, the reservation system defaults to starting from the end of the carriage. So that you are allocated one of the seats that are meant to be reserved for the elderly and those with a disability.

    (b) is with people who can suffer from motion sickness and so much prefer to not have their backs to the front of the train. Easily solved you would think by booking using the useful graphical depiction of the train carriage. Not so, sonny Jim. The depiction doesn’t tell you which direction the carriage will be facing in when departing from your station. So you book what you think will be a forward facing seat and it turns out to be facing backwards.

    (c) I would add my voice to the problems posed by the lack of external notice as to which carriage is which. The on-line fares are good if you know precisely which train you will get but reservations are pointless if they are not dependable.

    Comment by Dan Sullivan
    23.
    August 21, 2009
    8:57 am

    This year I travelled twice from Dublin to Cork and back. I had booked the tickets online including seat reservations. Living in Switzerland, a country with an excellent train service, I must say I was totally surprised about how well this worked, not only did I get the train tickets from the machine within seconds, but also to find my prebooked seats, marked with my own name was astonishing. Irish rail have really improved their service. The trains were very comfortable, kept clean with personnel circulating throughout the journey and removing rubbish. What also surprised me, was that the announcements were simultanousely displayed above the doors – a system that is definitely missing in Switzerland!
    Seat reservations fail very often because fellow travellers don’t pay any attention to where they take their seats. A problem that is universal and not Irish only. I am looking forward to my next journey with Irish rail.

    Comment by Eva Neumann, Switzerland
    24.
    August 21, 2009
    12:32 pm

    @Will: regarding the last resort of the mobile phone camera, that could get complicated, since the [alleged] offender could counter-claim that you are breaching his/her right to privacy by photoing him/her. Then any potential legal proceedings could get quite convoluted!
    So I think Irish Rail should take due responsibility and nullify all such wrongly occupied reserved seat problems by simply making all seats subject to seat-number reservation, before it takes some awful escalation with fatal consequences to compel them to do so.

    Comment by Niall
    25.
    August 21, 2009
    12:34 pm

    @Eva: “Seat reservations fail very often…” maybe, but not everywhere. Have you used VR in Finland? All seats are reservation based by seat-number. No problems whatsoever.

    Comment by Niall
    26.
    August 22, 2009
    6:52 pm

    The Malahide Viaduct not withstanding… or standing even, I can’t see myself travelling with Irish rail for the forseeable future. The morning train from Rosslare didn’t look, or smell, like it had been cleaned the night before. Certainly, nobody bothered to look in the bathroom of the first coach which had cigarette ash on the floor and a Heineken can in the sink. And they couldn’t even be counted as added bonuses as there was no water in the taps or the toilet cistern and no soap. It was just by the grace of some deity that there happened to be toilet paper! The train was grubby through out, actually and unless you got on before Gorey, don’t expect the refreshment cart to come near you. The vendor started at the back very early in the journey, did one runthrough and sat it out for the second half of the trip. No tea for the poor sods who got on in Rathnew!

    Next time I’ll drive, thanks all the same.

    Comment by Caroline O'Connell
    27.
    August 22, 2009
    8:09 pm

    And I’d like to add (courtesy of my mobile internet!) It would be a great service if Irish Rail would install smoke alarms in the loos like on planes. It might stop the pig-ignorant smokers stinking the place out! This time there was water… still no soap and a complete absence of toilet paper. Just fag butts in the sink.

    Comment by Caroline O'Connell
    28.
    August 24, 2009
    11:11 am

    100% agree Caroline. And what is the story with the swipe system that has been installed in Heuston. You have to swipe your ticket to get off the platform and into the station. This is utterly pointless as half the time, your ticket wont swipe!

    Comment by claire
    29.
    August 24, 2009
    8:02 pm

    I was planning my trip from home here in Cork to Croke Park recently. My son and my brother were travelling with me. Travel by train seemed a good idea and would be reasonably comfortable I thought. However, when I checked on the fares I had a rethink. At €71 per adult return and €36 for my boy, the total cost came to €178. I drove instead, perhaps spending somewhere between €50 and €60 in fuel cost. (How is that rail fares increase while the rest of us are having our pay reduced?).
    We parked at the Red Cow and took the Luas to Heuston, stopping off there to meet family who had travelled by train. Bad decision. When we tried to resume the Luas journey to Connolly, we joined a throng for the next tram, and the next one and the next one. They were crammed so full that we had no option but to take the bus to town. The bus conductor/inspector informed us that we would have to pay as the Luas ticket cannot be used on the buses.
    I contrast this with a travelling experience in Germany recently. A return ticket to bring 3 adults and 2 children from Belzig (45 miles SW of Berlin) to Berlin (after 9 am) cost €27. I kid you not!
    We have a long way to go – in every sense of the word.

    Comment by Pat Naughton
    30.
    August 25, 2009
    3:44 pm

    Having travelled for nearly ten years by Irish Rail, i wont be going back to ‘em ever, with the exception of a few war ravaged countries they are the worst organised and managed institution in a country full of ill organised and incompetently managed institutions.

    The UK comes in for critiscism on on its rail policy, but having flown in to manchester airport, i was able to get a prebooked ticket for a train to my destination, with FREE (Yes no charge) seat reservation done bycarriage and seat number. The train guard was on hand to ensure that the seat was available. And anyone in a seat not reserved for them moved readily enough. But then again, me feinism has something to do with it along the same lines of not giving a toss about parking correctly. Another Oirish failing to go with all the rest.
    Plus the weeknd return ticket was inexpensive, the train was on time, and there was plenty of signage infomation about the status of the train, not some grunted reply down a tannoy.

    Compared to this dump, the UK is a utopia

    Comment by MarkS
    31.
    August 26, 2009
    9:10 am

    In comparision with train services in other countries the intercity railway system in Ireland is great. Booking your ticket online and collecting it by simply swiping your laser card at a machine is unparalleled technology, and I have never seen a row over seats. The Irish are very polite and well behaved in comparision to other nationalities. Some people just complain to complain.

    Comment by corine
    32.
    August 26, 2009
    10:03 am

    I have been travelling on the train from kerry to Dublin for the past 8 years and there has been a MASSIVE improvment in the service. I actually quite enjoy it now.
    A few things i would like to address. firstly the carriages are given letters A,B,C,D etc (visible on the outside when you are boarding the train). so if you are sitting in D14- you are carriage D seat 14. Its not that hard a concept to grasp. And they DO limit the carriages with reserved seating! Generally C and D. They are at the front of the train (and anyone booking online would be able to cop the direction that you seat will be facing since the graphic online SHOWS the locomotive engine).
    Anytime i have gotten on the train and there has been someone in my seat once they are made aware that they are in a reserved seat they move. I have never had any problems with someone refusing to move. And in fairness to Irranroad Eireann (something i never thought i would say) what are they supposed to do? the name is printed above the seat, they cant go around the train before very trip and put a reserved sign on each seat (and even if they did we would complain that there was no mint with it).
    And to address the lack of stewards- do you have any idea how long it would take to individually usher people to their seats? get real. Yes, perhaps someone directing people to the carriages that are or are not reserved would be a good idea but this would probably be achieved just as well with a little notice.
    People who dont arrive to occupy their seats- eh if you are leaving Dublin and 15 minutes in noone has sat in the reserved seat id say that its a fair bet that you can take it. Plus on the cork train the steward will bring people who are standing to any unoccupied seats (i ended up in first class once!)
    As for the charge to go on another service- this has never happend to me. What has happed quite often is that i have arrived to the station earlier than anticipated, went to the customer service desk and told them that. If there is room on the train they let me get the earlier one, if not i have to wait. Fair enough- and i have never had to wait, they always let me on.
    Yes i do agree that the price is far too high and that the special offers are at unreasonable times for people who are working- but it is a business with no competition after all.
    And as i said, as someone who has been travelling the train service for 8 years, and often had to stand dublin- mallow, been in a train with no heat/lights or even on a train where they couldnt turn off the heat i have to say that there has been a major much needed improvement.

    P.S. I, or any of my family, DO NOT work for CIE!! ;-) And i have my horror stories but they have dramatically decreased in the last few years so kudos for that.

    Comment by Cait
    33.
    August 26, 2009
    10:20 am

    I practically own seat E56 on the Dublin – Cork route now I’ve travelled on it so much, and yes, I think the whole seat reservation system is a bit of a shambles to say the least. While I say I own seat E56… I rarely get to sit there due to ‘unaware’ elders who look at me (21 year old, 5′3, ‘young legs’) with disgust if I even attempt to open my mouth and ask them to move out of my seat… or else there’s the case of ‘broken down system-itis’ where no names are displayed… some hope of kicking someone off your seat then..
    But I will say to note comment made below.. the munch on board has nothing to do with Irish Rail… it’s a company that just sells soggy sambo’s and a cup of tea for €7.05… rip off.. but if you’re hungry…!! And to be fair to Irish Rail… a train hasn’t broken down on me in at least a year…

    Comment by Niamj

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