I think it’s important you have mentioned the tone of Dempsey’s speech. It was very much aimed at party members, I don’t think he would of had the nerve to have delivered it live to the nation.

The exact quote from Dempsey is:

“The fact is that a small number of sophisticated money manipulators endangered the economic survival of our people.
There is no parallel in history for the damage they have done to this nation – except perhaps Cromwell. And even Cromwell was motivated by reasons other than personal gain.”

That’s taken from the script provided by Fianna Fáil after the leader’s address.

He also said, and sorry for the long comment, but I think it’s noteworthy

“Brian Cowen has spent the last few months delivering in a dire situation. He has watched, across the floor of the house, the Opposition Parties not delivering. Not delivering principled opposition. Instead they have delivered cheap dramatics – not caring about the consequences of what they’re saying.

Fine Gael and Labout will some day regret the way they danced around a wounded economy. They will some day regret the way they happily spread a dangerous message to the world about a country they claim to love and serve.

They have not served Ireland well in the last few weeks.”

It was “weeks” that did it for me.

The whole speech could have been summed up with

“We were in charge, but sure you can’t expect us to know what was going can you? Nah, you can’t blame us for the bankers and developers making a boo-boo. Wasn’t us!”

Sometimes I wonder about that lot…

????Who

Deaglan,

Even more than specifics the atmosphere you describe is interesting.

To me it conjures up the impression of a congregation of people whose best days are behind them, who have retreated to the safe haven of their immediate environs because the bigger picture is difficult to fathom.

The only part of the Ard Fheis I saw was a delegate interviewed for the news bulletin as Gaeilge, who stated Brian Cowen was doing jab an-mhaith, which prompted me to ask my flatmate the question: ‘Where the hell do these people come from?’

Deaglán,

Fighting a world war and being in Government during a recession are very different. Are there national governments in other countries affected by recession today? Would it really be a good thing for an opposition party to support economic policies it disagreed with? It is not like the Government needs the votes of the opposition to govern. The Tallaght Strategy was at a time when the Government was a minority Government. It is not a minority Government now. It is not the case that the parties in opposition do not on any issue support the Government. Fine Gael and Sinn Féin supported the guarantee of the banks. Only my party, Labour did not support that particular measure. Bills pass in the Dáil and Seanad all the time that are unopposed. A national government when we have a majority government, not only is not necessary, but would not as Fergal points out be good for democracy. This recession could last for maybe 10 years – who knows. And people will need to be able to decide when the next election comes up whether they agree with the present government’s approach and the ideology that underpins that approach or if they want to try a different approach and a different ideology. Looks like people are already starting to think that way and voter preference may already be realigning. A national government or something along the lines you are suggesting may only serve to prop up a party in Government whose ideology is no longer what this country needs and increasing numbers of voters no longer want.

Good, robust defences of the existing dispensation, Joanna and Sean!

What you are leaving out is what is happening outside parliament. There seems to be little or no appetite for the medicine that is required to fix this sickness or at least to prevent it from spreading. We could end up with serious social disorder. In that context, a measure of unity from the parties in the Dáil could be important in securing broad popular consent for necessary austerity measures. Tit-for-tat politics and disedifying parliamentary infighting could serve to justify a selfish approach by particular interest groups. After all, there was unity on the peace process which was a programme to bring an earlier crisis – not economic but very threatening in its own way – to an end.

I am not saying we need it today or tomorrow but it might well be necessary and should not be ruled out. The crisis we are facing is too deep. I felt Garret FitzGerald and Eamon Gilmore were saying something similar during the week but did not get a very positive response.

No, I’m not suggesting a putsch, but serious disorder along the lines of what happened in Greece and Thailand is a very real possibility down the road.

Everyone in the Dail knows what the problem is and that drastic action must be taken. There is a lack of acceptance in the wider nation however. When you see the police taking part in protest marches or organising their own protest march you know something is deeply amiss. (Garda overtime is in the Department of Finance’s sights.)

There is a problem of consent. People are not willing to make the sacrifices that are necessary. In normal times this would be a healthy reaction but in the current crisis could prove fatal to us all.

In that context, adversarial politics may need to be put to one side with regard to the economy. It’s not a question of the Government’s current majority but the state of mind of the populace.

The Government has been quite rightly attacked for a lack of leadership. It has failed to persuade people that (a) the cuts are necessary and (b) they are being implemented fairly.

But there needs to be leadership from the Opposition as well. Taking advantage of the crisis to score political points againt the Government serves to legitimise the Naysayers and the “I’m Alright Jack” brigade. That’s why, I assume, Gilmore has reiterated his offer of talks with the Government about proposals and solutions for solving the country’s economic problems.

Another, related issue which should be mentioned is that Social Partnership has effectively sidelined the parliamentary process for some 20-odd years now. Maybe if the Opposition parties took part in a socila pact, it might make the Dail more relevant in the public’s eyes. That could be very good for democracy.

As regards the Dail’s credibility, tell me: how much credibility do you think it has at the moment?
.

Deaglán, that WWII national government wasn’t actually a broad based sharing of ministries or power.

I think it is instructive that Brian Lenihan said that the opposition hadn’t supported any government action when it came to the division bell. Has he forgotten his own banking bill already?

Deaglan,

In light of events at the Fianna Fail Ard Fheis, I proposed the suggestion of a national protest: a demonstration, offering every citizen capable of making the decision to stand completely still for one minute on midday of a set-date. Perhaps then an accurate reflection of the national collective attitude toward Dail credibility can be established.

In this suggestion I’m not predicting a hypothetical outcome. It may be the case that people are willing to accept the existing set-up. But I doubt it…

If it is that the country must come first (and I agree it is) then surely that means the Taoiseach of the day should accept that he must go to the people and outline his programme and seek their endorsement for it.

As for the national governments in the UK, which is what most people have in the back of their minds when talking about this: They were mostly conservative governments with one or two from other parties and had their origins in the inability of the Labour government under Ramsay McDonald being able to agree on a course of action. Even the war government was mainly conservative.

All this talk of national government is undemocratic, the government no longer has a mandate for its current policies as they are the opposite of that manifesto for which they received votes. Fact is a FG/Labour/Green government if it were formed were people to swap support would also be lacking in legitimacy.

If we lack the time for an election, how is it that we have the time to wait until the autumn for new budgetary measures? Every day that passes with no action from the Government proves that we could have easily held an election in the time that has passed.

Noel Dempsey’s entry speech (no, it was a diatribe) regarding Fine Gael and Labour dancing around a wounded economy was broadcast at the 8.30pm opening on RTE1. He had no mandate to say that. It just illustrates the polarised mindset FF sit at. The FF conference should have served the public as a State of the Nation address. FF are ignoring our democracy.

What planet are FF on? They are walking themselves into a cul de sac surrounded by their black ministerial cars. One day there will be a social uprising, if not certainly a massive reaction denying FF the June elections. Maybe the Garda drivers should throw all ministerial car-keys into a bowl in that cul de sac. Hand the keys over to a new FG/Labour government, or to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

As for the petrol/diesel in those cars, pass that issue onto the Greens; they have only room for such aspects, under their narrow selfish remit. At least when the PDs were in government, they governed with FF. The Greens seem to think they should only concern themselves with their own narrow focus.

In reality there is no coalition, just two very poor teams of suits at the cabinet. We need a government that is integrated AND free of quangos.

And then there is the imagery of a defeated Bertie Ahern in that audience on Saturday night, back from his travels. He is to run for the Presidency it seems. Good grief, that is a worry………. When I read the Financial Times on the weekends it is then when I really get worried for our country. Move over FF and never come back.

Just an addendum. On Dan’s point and your reply the World War 2 Government in Britain was a coalition government.

Just one additional point to this interesting, albeit depressing, thread. If one follows the international news daily what you see is growing evidence of a serious global economic collapse. For example listening to Martin Wolf, Chief Economist at the Financial Times, yesterday on CNN on the global crisis was mind-boggling. There is nowhere to run to, to emigrate to for jobs, to safely invest money, etc., etc.

Ireland is somewhere close to the bottom of an abyss in a collapsed global economy. We may have to spend a generation crawling out of that abyss.

I think that calls for a national Government rather than the political tribalism in evidence at the Ardfheis last weekend.

It is time for patriotism not politics, and frankly the party of patriotism, FF, seems to have no sense of it. Numbers aside, just how far can a party fall?

We need a statesman at the helm (not just a brainy politician) and elected TDs of all parties who are prepared to put their country before their political careers. I see neither. Is that too negative?

Patrick

Bangkok

Deaglán, the difference in 1987 was FF in the form of McSharry were substantially implementing the FG budget that had caused the collapse of the FG/Lab coalition. It would have been completely hypocrisy for FG to basically oppose the policies they had themselves attempted to pursue. That we’re all surprised at this just shows how low the standard FF set for the nation really is. I recall from this year’s Ard Fheis a speaker on the Saturday morning speaking in opposition to any form of residential property tax. If Brian Lenihan brings one in come the Autumn do you think she will resign from FF? Of course not, that was merely something she said at a time that was convenience for her and to imply any real commitment to it as an idea.

Thanks Joanna, it is gratifying to see a busy TD burning the midnight oil to respond to my comment. Your first paragraph is a good piece of writing too.

I think we probably will have an election fairly soon because I am not sure the Government can keep its nerve. They are showing signs of serious strain – and no wonder.

As you say, the campaign would last three weeks or so but then you would presumably have the horse-trading and uncertainty afterwards. As I said, I expect Labour to go into coalition with either FG or FF. It is my impression that the right-wing tendency in FG’s message has been toned down a bit of late: more Richard and less Leo.

Since we have the June 5th elections and since there may well be a general election soon enough afterwards, I don’t see the need to dissolve the Dáil right now. It would send a bad message to the international financial community. “Political crisis in Ireland as economy collapses” – can’t you just see the headlines in the Herald Tribune and the Financial Times?

I also believe there will probably be cross-party unity but, as in the case of Lisbon, it may very well be too late to have any impact on public opinion. I’m not sure the crisis can be resolved if FF are in opposition – should they take a hostile approach, life would be impossible for the government of the day. That’s fatalistic but also realistic. It’s like – in another context – De Gaulle being the only one who could pull out of Algeria.

That’s all from Radio Nostradamus for now!

Interesting. You make a superb point.

Very fair article.