outsidein

  • Serfs and aristocrats

    November 10, 2009 @ 1:38 pm | by Bryan

    At the launch of From The Republic of Conscience in the National Library last night were Colm O'Gorman, executive director of Amnesty International's Irish section, former president Mary Robinson, and poet Seamus Heaney. Photograph: Aidan Crawley

    At the launch of From The Republic of Conscience in the National Library last night were Colm O’Gorman, executive director of Amnesty International’s Irish section, former president Mary Robinson, and poet Seamus Heaney.
    Photograph: Aidan Crawley.

    Former President Mary Robinson is reported to have said that

    …the question of overseas aid was “no longer a them and us” question. “If you add it to climate there’s an interconnection . . . We’re going to be all in this together because we need to reduce the emissions across the world. It’s a really interconnected future until 2050. The future of the poorest is also our children’s and our grandchildren’s future.”

    I wonder how many people believe that. I know I’m not completely sold.

    Is there an interconnection? Absolutely. People in places like Ireland and the United States aren’t just concerned about the emissions from China’s factories out of concern for Chinese workers. The effects of climate change aren’t limited to the source of the human activity responsible for the causal environmental damage. That said, isn’t it curious that while most of us would rather the Chinese didn’t do anything that jeopardises our future, we’re still very happy with the fact that we have access to cheap manufactured goods? The world may be interconnected in some ways, but I suspect that the future of the poorest will be as removed from that of the wealthy as is currently the case.

    There’s a fascinating dichotomy in the realm of global interconnectedness. On one hand, there are the areas in which everyone seems happy to be related. Climate change is a perfect example. The human rights arena an even better one. Climate change is a no-brainer because simple self-interest dictates that I should care about something that could have disastrous consequences for me, regardless of who is doing it. Human rights are more complicated. Provided that countries like Ireland don’t have to accommodate plane loads of refugees, and that export markets aren’t significantly affected, it’s hard to see how self-interest could possible be the driving force behind a concern for the rights of women in Benin.

    Then there is the other side of the coin. If there really is this interconnectedness, what are my responsibilities? If climate change really is a shared challenge; if it is primarily the product of human industrial and commercial activity; if the benefits of that activity predominantly accrue to one group of people and the burdens to another - surely some sort of redistribution and overall commitment to getting by on less is required? But take note, no OECD country has decided to redistribute wealth to the ‘bottom billion’ by implementing a drastic national tax (ideally a tax that would also drastically reduce consumption so that those in poor countries could increase theirs without threatening the environment). Similarly, with human rights, if we value them that much, if we think that poor women in Benin are due the inalienable rights enjoyed by those in liberal Western democracies, then why is it virtually impossible for those same women to get access into an OECD country? And it’s not the illiberal state of Benin that denies them this access, but the liberal, human rights-championing OECD democracies.

    The future of the poorest is also our children’s and our grandchildren’s future.

    No it’s not. Not so long ago I heard a political scientist refer to the ordinary citizens of rich nations as the aristocrats of the world. He was right. The world is still very much a ‘them’ and ‘us’ place. The definitions determining who constitutes ‘them’ and ‘us’ may be more fluid today than in past, but the future of the serf is still likely to be serfdom. That of the aristocrat, provided the established order of things doesn’t change, will likely be aristocracy.

  • 10 Comments »

    1.
    November 10, 2009
    2:12 pm

    My masters thesis was on neo-realism (kenneth waltz) versus complex interdependency (joseph nye & robert keohane). I disagree Byran that it is one or the other.

    In reality we flit in and out of roles and in some roles like trade complex interdependency is more to the fore. However, on something like enregy or the arms trade, neo-realism and the competition for the global agenda and influence is these areas is much more pronounced.

    In China, were they to adopt a human right based approach they could not persist with the plantation of the Uighur province or the occupation of Tibet. Indeed they could not train and fund the Maoist’s in Nepal. So they are very clearly advancing naked self-interest by advancing the rights of Beijing / Peking at the expense of other ethnicities.

    It is far more complex as the international system has multiple actors with different capabilities and powers. The nature of power itself is ephemeral, difficult to acquire and yet easy to expend. Military power is not more useful than economic power but economic power is of limited use without military power. Companies and individuals have some of the latter and none of the former. International organisations like OPEC, NATO or the UN have one or other or a mix of both.

    Countries are the only one with full control of both whether they are Chad or the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or little old Ireland. It is countries and their elected governments or unelected junta’s that decide the role to be played by the country in the system.

    It is a complicated, fluid game. Power is the name of the game and therefore the poorest have the least hope of advancement.

    Comment by robespierre
    2.
    November 10, 2009
    4:42 pm

    The climate has always been changing as I’m sure the Roman vineyard owners in the North of England would attest to but Climate change and redistribution (assuming it could even be done in an effective way) to the bottom billion makes no sense to me as it would mean that pollution and carbon emissions would increase from that group? Jevons paradox I believe it is called. Also throw in issues like Peak Oil and I defy anyone to tell me what the world is going to be like over the next 50 years. Short of knowing that a massive meteor is going to hit the Earth a co-ordinated policy backed up by substantial resources may end up dealing with the wrong problem.
    There have been some nice observations by economists in the past, for instance one looking out over the city of Paris and pondering the marvel of how all these people are fed or the wonder that is the humble pencil which requires the cooperation of people that have never met and would probably hate each other. Those kind of connections I can understand but if ghettos exist in places like Africa or India in a hundred years time it will not be the fault or responsibility of individuals half way round the globe.

    Comment by Liam
    3.
    November 10, 2009
    9:00 pm

    I think Mary Robinson’s heart is in the right place but do I believe ““If you add it to climate there’s an interconnection . . . We’re going to be all in this together because we need to reduce the emissions across the world. It’s a really interconnected future until 2050. The future of the poorest is also our children’s and our grandchildren’s future.”
    Yes we are all in this together…we all inhabit the same planet…but some are most definitely more equal than others…and we don’t have to travel to the Third World to see that inequality. Just take a trip at night in Dublin city and see the number of faceless homeless children. All this other stuff is all well and good but we need to take care of things in the “now”!. Life right now is just as precious as life to come…so deal with now.

    Comment by Chris
    4.
    November 11, 2009
    1:32 pm

    If Mary is serious about reducing climate change, maybe she could address the issue of population explosion in the 3rd world, and the distorting affect of aid.

    Population of Ethiopia has doubled since the 80s & is on course to double again by 2030.

    Why ? Aid.

    As for giving the 3rd world access to the OECD - why should we reduce the whole world to rubble in order to appear ‘fair’. Welfare systems would not survive such a demographic change. Is it too much to suggest that the 3rd world should be working towards standing on their own ?

    As for the glaring absence of human rights - well the west could intervene in Africa, but that would be viewed as neo-colonialism wouldn’t it ?

    Comment by John
    5.
    November 11, 2009
    5:03 pm

    Bryan,
    It’s true that we are all interconnected, and that pollution in China will affect us today and tomorrow. So we are right to an extent in putting pressure on them to decrease it.

    But it’s also a factor for the people of China too. It’s not a democratic country, so they have no say in the matter themselves. And the rates of lung cancer, and pollutions associated illness’s are astronomical there. So that intervention will help too.

    As for buying cheap goods from China, it’s a double edged sword as this is putting western manufacturing employees out of business. If there was a democratic referendum on the matter, and the choice was between western jobs and Chinese jobs, we would probably selfishly vote against cheap Chinese goods.

    But the elephant in the living room that no-one says much about is the rate of population growth in the developing world. And the Chinese to their credit have tackled that issue head on.

    Which brings us to Benin. You asked why it is so hard for people from a country like Benin to get into an OECD country. (Looking around any Irish city, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of getting in!!)

    But until they tackle their population growth, it will be just a pointless episode. According to Wikipedia, the population of Benin has increased from 6,769,914 to 8,935,000, between the census of 2002 and 2009. 2.2 million people in 7 years. That’s crazy!!!

    Comment by P
    6.
    November 12, 2009
    12:21 am

    robespierre - I think I understand what you’re saying. And you’re right, power is a fluid thing.

    Here is where I have a serious difficulty. If liberal democratic states really believe in the concept of human rights like they claim to, if they also beieve that they are universal and should be exported to places like China, then surely there is a moral imperative, if the Chinese state won’t accept this position, to offer those citizens denied those rights. And that at any just about any cost. I like liberal egalitarianism. I like a lot of the values it tries to uphold. But there are times I can’t help but feel that in the political arena, those values are nothing but a potential political tool for domination. If not, how could a country like Ireland work so incredibly hard at finding ways to not have to offer people asylum, even though the right to asylum is something it purports to uphold?

    Liam - Those kind of connections I can understand but if ghettos exist in places like Africa or India in a hundred years time it will not be the fault or responsibility of individuals half way round the globe.

    I have the greatest respect for your views, but I think you’re being a little ‘dishonest’ here. How does scepticism of man’s contribution to climate change, or the existence of ‘climate change’, lead to the conclusion that ghettos in Africa or India in a hundred years time are not the responsibility of people halfway around the globe?

    Besides, if we assume that the planet has finite resources so that resource accumulation is a zero-sum game; if capital tends towards more capital, if primitive accumulation of that capital was very dubious (Nozick, by the way, agrees it is and thinks there should be redistribution to make this right); and if people in one part of the world live on 6 times the resources of those on the other side; then surely an argument can very easily be made in 100 years for the existence of huge inequality and the culpability of those who benefited from the unjust state of affairs?

    Chris - You and I are in complete agreement.

    John - the population argument… How sad.

    May I suggest that it’s neither here nor there. I’m serious. Let’s say that people in the South are irresponsibly procreating like rabbits. Let’s say that, to borrow from my friend Myers, all they ever do is procreate, circulate disease, start wars, eat food bought by the hard earned money of conscientious, well-meaning Westerners… And let’s call these people EAS (short for Eat and Sleep - watch the film Bamboozled to understand that reference). So what?

    My personal take is that my continent isn’t made up of EASs. I know because I spent most of my life there and I travelled around Southern Africa pretty extensively. But even if this silly colonial characterisation were true, so what? One’s moral obligation to another vanishes the moment one decides that the other is behaving irresponsibly?

    Hmmmm…. where have we seen that before. Oh, I know! The near eradication of native Americans! And yes, the colonisation of Africa! The concept of terra nullis - the idea that if people aren’t utilising their resources in a manner that you deem responsible, you can consider those resources to be up for grabs!

    World history shows that you can’t think like that without getting into serious trouble. Take the crack-head roughing it in Dublin tonight. Let’s let her die of hypothermia because hell, she keeps taking drugs while the rest of us work at being responsible citizens and pay our taxes. But what if she’s taking those drugs because she’s trying to forget the trauma inflicted on her by people acting on your and my behalf?

    P - about the women from Benin, I’ve yet to meet a single one in Ireland. Today, a woman from Benin on that nation’s average income just couldn’t get a visa into Ireland. If she somehow got here and tried to claim asylum, in the absence of the sort of documentation that I imagine most people fleeing for their lives don’t prioritise, it’s very unlikely that she’ll be allowed into the country.

    All those black women you see all over the place, they aren’t middle income women from Benin. The vast majority (well over 50%), are doctors, nurses, accountants and other professionals (By the way, I still can’t tell Nigerians, Kenyans or Zimbabweans apart just by ‘looking around’. I’m very curious about how you could spot the average middle income lady from Benin).

    Comment by Bryan
    7.
    November 12, 2009
    1:26 am

    Seperate points , climate change and future global poverty are not connected in any material way
    I cant accept the reasoning for the disparity of resources as you have stated it. While there are clearly big issues with aggressive western trade policies and imperialist history, capital tends to flow to where it is most productive, who would want it any other way. Resouces dont have value under the ground, they only have value to the extent they are combined with human capital, so there is never a zero sum game.
    Human history has been built on innovation and it would be disengenous to argue that every development in one society creates an equal and opposite oppression/disadvantage for another.

    Comment by Liam
    8.
    November 12, 2009
    9:56 am

    I think where we differ Brian is summed up by I think it was Bobby Kennedy quoting someone else when saying something along the lines of “some see things as they are say why, I see things that never were and say why not”.

    Realistically, we have to differ between how states behave in the system of states and how they behave within their own borders. The Treaty of Westphalia established the principle of complete sovereignty within one borders. The only real change to this concept since the 18th century has been the evolving idea of a “just war” and the grounds on which one can intervene legally in another countries territory. For example, Husseins invasion of Kuwait was illegal on all levels. On the other hand, Kosovo (an undisputed part of the territory of Serbia and only semi-autonomous to this day) was a morally justified but illegal intervention. There, NATO set out to acheive what the UN could not because of China and Russia backing Serbia. Russia with Chechnya and China with Tibet and the lesser known but nonetheless fragile Uighur plantation wanted to avoid any precedent being set by means of a UNSC resolution that would reverberate inside their borders.

    This was a question of Human Rights intervention. In some cases like Vietnam and Cambodia refugees were offered sanctuary. The difference is that they are not political refugees from a cold war system today. Today, in the main, the people seeking to migrate are economic migrants. I think that asylum is an important right and personally I voted against McDowells referendum as I believe in the UN Charter but it has only been allowed to achieve two of its seven founding aims - the establishment of a forum to promote peace and security (partially achieved - the General Assembly was meant to be the main body) and decolonisation (achieved).

    The comes down to a guiding principle, where citizens are at risk and their rights are being ignored or abused, neighbours in the first instance should look to apply pressure. No neighbour of Irelands applied any pressure on Britain during the troubles - ever. We had to look to the US. Back when Westphalia was first drawn up it was neighbours like France, Austro-Hungary, Emerging Prussia, Russia, Italianite League etc. that kept tabs on one another. It is preferable that neighbours help to inculcate good values and set an example locally.

    To treat somebody with respect and to uphold the law as fairly as possible costs less than it does to run an abusive police state. So once again, I come back to power. The despotic obsession many leaders in the G77 have with power at the expense of the people is what is most regrettable here, not that they can or cannot access freer regimes. I appreciate your own special circumstances but my own view is that rather than redistributing millions of people from East Timor or Uighir province or Chechnya or Haiti that we should be encouraging better governance in those places. It is the only logical position to take.

    Comment by robespierre
    9.
    November 12, 2009
    11:43 am

    Bryan,
    Sorry I hit a raw nerve with that “population argument”. I dont think for a second that the continent is made up of the EAS’s that you mention. And I have travelled in Africa myself so I know what I am talking about.

    But the fact remains that until Africa tackles her population growth the way China did, it’s not going to progress. Accusing anyone who brings it up of racism is not going to win many arguments when confronted with the facts. The example I gave above of Benin’s explosive population growth cannot be argued against!!

    And if you look at my comment, I said people from countries “like Benin”, I was not trying to pretend I can tell people from one country from another.

    And I am doubtfull if 50 per cent of Africans in this country are doctors or other professionals. The majority of them who came in here abused our asylum laws. Nigerians for instance are among the immigrant groups with the highest rate of unemployment and the highest rate of rent allowance. And unfortunately gentlemen like this Nigerian doctor who lied about his skills raise a bit of skeptism about their real contribution to this country http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1029/1224257604166.html

    Comment by P
    10.
    November 19, 2009
    12:34 pm

    oh population … if I’m not mistaken the third most populated country in the world are the US (after China and India), Nigeria is the only African country making the top 10 … Why do we always think of Africa being overpopulated? Besides, population numbers or even population density doesn’t matter that much, it’s the amount of resources these populations consume and the amount of waste they generate. And it’s a sorry fact that we in the developed world consume about 80% of the world’s resources - and yet we dare suggest that poor countries should stop breeding as there isn’t enough food to go around! Maybe we should start culling some Europeans and North Americans, that should free up enough resources to keep everyone else hunger free for years to come. And hey, with a bit of luck climate change may be reversed - according to the Guardian (yes, I am one of these bleeding-heart liberals that sometimes read the Guardian) a typical American will, by 4am on 2 January have produced as many emissions as a Tanzanian generates in a year …

    Comment by pantalona

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