• RSS
  • Text Size:
  • -
  • irishtimes.com - Posted: September 25, 2009 @ 1:50 pm

    Hooray for the G20?

    Bryan

    YouTube Preview Image

    “The fact that 20 or so individuals right now are determining economic trade policies for four to five billion people just isn’t right,” Mr. Griffith said. “That’s why we’re here.”

    Most news organisations are making a big deal over the fact that the G8 is being replaced by the G20. The fact that a handful of the most powerful ‘developing nations’ are being added to the elite club that gets to set the economic rules for the rest is supposed to represent the dawn of a new inclusive era or something. It does no such thing.

    Let’s take a look at some of these ‘developing nations’. China. India. South Africa. Turkey. Brazil. These aren’t exactly the nations that I would pick were I trying to get a good understanding of the concerns of the typical state in the South. China is China. India, while being home to some of the world’s poorest people, is also incredibly wealthy. So much so, the Indians not only sent a rocket to the moon, they were also the ones who recently discovered water there. They’re not exactly Malawi or Haiti – nations trying to come up with a formula for growing enough food to meet domestic needs. As for Brazil, the OECD has been trying to woo them for a while. The OECD, you may have noticed, have not expressed much interest in Cuba or Paraguayi. The G20 is so inclusive that neither Nigeria nor Egypt, Africa’s second and third wealthiest nations, were deemed worthy. And yet, just about all of Europe is represented there by the EU. But just to make sure, France, Germany, Italy and Britain get their own special seats. The same is true of North America – the US, Canada and Mexico are all members.

    So just to re-cap, the G20 is made up of Europe, North America, and everyone else with too much economic clout to ignore. And what happens when only the powerful get to make the rules? Let’s look at the response to the recent financial crisis, shall we? As was recently demonstrated on the excellent three part BBC television series, The Love of Money, the politically powerful got together with the economically powerful to craft a solution to the crisis. Unsurprisingly, it was decided that to avoid catastrophe, the economically powerful could not be allowed to fail. Equally unsurprisingly, the chosen mechanism of their rescue was a transfer of wealth from the rest, to those deemed to large to fail. Could it be that the proposal to transfer wealth to struggling mortgage holders instead of, or in tandem with the banks bailout, would have got more of a hearing were struggling mortgage holders part of the deliberations? Hoping that China, Brazil or even South Africa will represent Malawi’s economic interests is like expecting AIB or Bank of Ireland to ask the Finance Minister to consider my local credit union’s needs, and give some of the taxpayer money allocated to the banks to St. Anthony’s Credit Union instead. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    Like Trevor Griffith, I have serious problems with a small group from the most powerful nations making potentially life and death decisions for the rest of the planet. If however, that’s the direction the world is going to take, then at least let’s be completely honest about it and get rid of the charade that is the United Nations General Assembly. Maybe let’s get rid of the UN altogether? It can’t be that important if the real decision makers use it as a pit stop en-route to G20 meetings.

  • 19 Comments

    1.
    September 25, 2009
    4:06 pm

    The new G20 is a good move. G20 must require all that trade with G20 must have a flowing currency. No pegged currency what so ever. This will give a correct playing field for trade. A country with a pegged currency walks away with a unjust profit. Note China’s pegged currency which makes it under valued and thoes that peg their currency to China for exsample. Fair is fair to all.

    Comment by Patrick
    2.
    September 25, 2009
    6:58 pm

    Bryan – “Could it be that the proposal to transfer wealth to struggling mortgage holders instead of, or in tandem with the banks bailout, would have got more of a hearing were struggling mortgage holders part of the deliberations?”

    While I agree that the upward transfer of wealth to the banks is wrong, what you seem to be saying is that your preference is that you want a transfer of wealth from struggling home owners to struggling homeowners via higher taxes or possibly to their children via borrowing?

    Comment by Liam
    3.
    September 25, 2009
    7:27 pm

    Couldn’t agree more with you Bryan..

    Comment by michaelstrasb
    4.
    September 26, 2009
    2:12 am

    Bryan,

    I concur, particulary about the UN!! Most Americans see it is nothing more then a waste of valuable tax dollars. You have read my post and I have often wondered why 550 lawmakers in the US call the shots for 300 million Americans. Something just dosen’t seem right with the world. The world is at a cross roads and we have to be smart as to how we will move forward. China, and India will be the 21st century players, while the US will slowly fade. Obama is moving forward with the downsizing of our US Military, and favors the Lisbon Treaty which he see’s as the new NATO. In the back rooms of the G-20, these deals are being played out. Welcome to reality.

    Comment by DHF5811
    5.
    September 26, 2009
    7:02 am

    DHF5811

    Just lets me be clear what the UN is. The UN is not the big glass building in Mannhatan. Thats the Secrertariat of the UN.

    The UN are the Heads of State of all the Member States most represented by ambassadors to the UN and a bevy of staff in NYC.

    This is what GW Bush and half of the American people as well as millions worldwide don’t seem to comprehend.

    What has mainly made the UN as useless as it is is the unilateral biased approach the big member states take to issues which the Member States bring to the UN table to solve. Essentially the US wants the UN to be it’s lapdog. Just rubber stamp what we the US want and all will be OK. Hello?

    Take Israel. Every agreed motion tabled at the UN Security trying to get some balance into the Israel/Palestine debacle which sanctions Israel is shamelessly vetoed by the US. EVERY. SHAMELESSLY.

    How can any multilateral system function under such blatant biased unexplained inexcusable behavior.

    So if you want to shoot the UN make sure you know first what exactly you are shooting and why.

    Drop the veto in the Security Council and then you will see a totally different UN. One simple decision.

    Trying to keep a secretariat staff motivated and functioning optimally in the face the current daily charade from the biggest leaders of the world is a constant up-hill battle.

    Patrick

    Bangkok

    Comment by Patrick Hennessy
    6.
    September 26, 2009
    9:26 am

    DHF5811: Obama is moving forward with the downsizing of our US Military

    Is he? I know he wants to avoid wasteful spending, but I was under the impression he wants to keep a large, robust military.

    Has he said he wants to downsize?

    Comment by Steve K
    7.
    September 26, 2009
    4:35 pm

    The best that can be hoped for is that the continued economic train wreck will derail the more ambitious goals of the G-20. God help us if the likes of Gordon Brown will be responsible for setting up a new global financial archictecture, obviously he is not content with running his own economy into the ground.

    Comment by Liam
    8.
    September 27, 2009
    2:31 am

    Why should American continue to support a UN which has watch genocide in Rwanda, Bosnia, etc. We our tired of being the world policeman. Its time for the Chinease and Indians to take this role, as wellas the EU.

    As for the downsizing of the US Military, yes, with the Iraq War draq down, focus has been placed on US Commanders to begin reduction of US Forces, mostly those deployed in Europe, and Asia. US Marines have withdrew nearly 10000 Marines from Japan in the past 18 months. Europeans now have a US President who agrees that we should allow Europe to protect itself via a strong EU (Lisbon Treaty). This means a major downsizing of US Forces over the next decade. This has a huge reason as to why Obama will not commit further troops to Afganistain. Don’t worry, the UN will safe you all, or better yet your have the Chinease and Indains come to your aid. We have washed our hands of you, just as you have with us. Obama promised change, and this is what you all are getting. THANK YOU!!

    Comment by DHF5811
    9.
    September 27, 2009
    5:45 pm

    DHF , I hope its so , no one asked the US to be the world policeman and to be honest apart from the cost that US taxpayers have had to suffer for it, the US have created havoc in Cental and South America, Africa & Asia over the decades with support and or sabotage of various governments and the wholesale theft of natural resources via its multinationals backed up the US gov. Dont let the door bang you in the ar** on the way out comes to mind!

    Comment by Liam
    10.
    September 27, 2009
    8:26 pm

    Patrick – With respect, I exchange rates are the least of my concerns. Even if exchange rates are just, a trade regime devised by the strong seldom benefits the weak.

    Liam – My real point is that when the most powerful make the rules, when some groups are excluded, the interests of those left in the cold are almost never the priority.

    Michael – thanks.

    DHF5811 – I can understand where that sentiment comes from, but the US has done its bit to ensure that the UN is functionally useless. The name John Bolton springs to mind.

    Patrick Hennessy – I completely agree that the fiercest criticism of the UN comes from those who have done most to undermine it, or from their supporters/constituency.

    Steve K – I don’t think he does. Were it not politically costly, I think he’d implement another ’surge’ in Afghanistan in a heartbeat. On that issue, I think what the US needs is a reintroduction of the draft. The moment middle-class families risk having their kids die in Kandahar Province, military spending will quickly come down.

    Comment by Bryan
    11.
    September 29, 2009
    1:26 am

    I think what the US needs is a reintroduction of the draft. The moment middle-class families risk having their kids die in Kandahar Province, military spending will quickly come down.

    Comment by Bryan

    Bryan, This is simply not a true statement and I resnt you or any other foreign national suggesting such nonsense. The US Military is made up of 76% white male, middle class Americans who “VOLUNTEER” to defend others freedoms around the world. Please stop such slander. I thought you to be an honest journalist. The Marines that died under my command were middle class Americans from all over this country. Please stick with the facts and stop the lies. The facts are there on the DOD website. Hispanics now make up the 2nd largest group of the US Military behind White Males, followed by African Americans. Stop listening to racist polticans like Charlie Rangel and get the facts! Your creditability as an honest Journalist just took a huge hit with this pack of trash!! Take a good look at the 5000 Americans who have died since 9/11. A large majority are white males, a majority Christian, from Middle Class backgrounds, avrage age is 20, and most have one and half years of college. GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT!! Please stop dishonering those of us that have the guts to fight for others freedoms, even yours.

    Comment by DHF5811
    12.
    September 29, 2009
    1:48 am

    Byran,

    Perhaps this website will refresh your thoughts.A response is greatly appreciated as to why your comments above were made and what facts you based them on.

    US Marine (Retired)
    Iraq/Afgan Veteran

    http://www.blackmilitaryworld.com/blackmilitaryworldtest/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=229:the-joomla-community&catid=38:platformsan,

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

    Comment by DHF5811
    13.
    September 29, 2009
    4:25 am

    DHF5811, you have to bear in mind that European politics are still formed by the post-WW2 model – that is, the twin virtues of pacifism and socialism. Mix that in with all the burnouts who are still hanging around from the 60s, and you have a popular mindset that is naturally inclined towards yank-bashing. The 1960s defined a worldview for a great many people who never got over it. What most people “know” about America is based on television, or is based on resentment of Americas ability to project power around the globe, which it does for better and for worse. In Europe there is a championing of pacifism, and a worship of the underdog – ANY underdog – in defiance of all common sense. Viewing the American military as soulless babykillers is a very fashionable viewpoint that will win you brownie points in certain quarters. It’s popular sport in Europe. Yank-bashing is a popular method of burnishing ones left-wing credentials.

    You have to realise this. There is a gulf between America and Western Europe. There’s a lot of nonsense spouted on both sides.

    I’d be surprised if Bryan was well acquainted with Chuck Rangel, who definitely is a sleazy, opportunistic bigot. He’s a domestic American political player. Bryan’s viewpoints, if I may be permitted to generalize, are more informed by the classic Socialist model, than Rangel’s post-60’s rabble rousing. Bryan is, I believe championing several different causes, none of which are capable of being delivered upon by a low-level player like Rangel. Bryan to his credit, is an intellectual and aims higher.

    Comment by Steve
    14.
    September 29, 2009
    2:13 pm

    DHF5811 – I meant no offence. Perhaps what I should have said is that if there were more rich kids dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, attitudes towards foreign military expeditions would harden. But I took up your challenge and I read the Heritage report. I confess, I was surprised. My initially views of the composition of just about any volunteer army was that those with the least viable options are most attracted to it. That position was supported by a few things that I’ve read in the past, including Chomsky’s Understanding Power and Imperial Ambitions. Also, though older than the Heritage report, this paper by Princeton’s Meredith Kleykamp supports that notion:

    http://theop.princeton.edu/reports/forthcoming/SSQrevisionMilitary.pdf

    There is also this NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/us/19recruits.html?_r=2

    That suggests that the military is viewed by some as an employer of last resort at a time when other jobs are hard to find. That’s not to say that the majority of those in a volunteer army are forced there by circumstances. Rather, those who are forced to join by circumstances tend to be people from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

    Finally, I meant there to be absolutely no racial connotations in suggesting there should be a draft. I’m very upfront when I think race plays a factor in something. If I felt that a volunteer army discriminates against racial minorities, I wouldn’t have hinted at it, I would have come out and said it plainly.

    Steve – Thanks … I think :-)

    Comment by Bryan
    15.
    September 29, 2009
    8:32 pm

    Bryan,
    you and I tend to live on opposite ends of the political spectrum. But I don’t need you to be like me or to agree with me for me to respect you. Whether it’s the right-wing or the left-wing, I hate rooms full of nodding heads. Dictatorship is the absence of political debate, and we all know where that ends up. The two sides need each other. So – it was well meant and you’re welcome.

    Comment by Steve
    16.
    September 29, 2009
    9:14 pm

    Steve Writes:

    Bryan is, I believe championing several different causes, none of which are capable of being delivered upon by a low-level player like Rangel. Bryan to his credit, is an intellectual and aims higher.

    I concur and apologize for being so straight forward. Bryan has always listen honestly to both sides of the debate. Like Steve, I find myself on the other side of plotics then Bryan, however much of that has to do with two things, One, I am an American, Two, I’m a Retired US Marine with multiple combat tours between 1980-2004. I’m not a far-right, Rush listening, nut case by no means, but then I find the Huffington Post & the NYT’s to be the far left’s answer to Rush and Beck!!

    Bryan, My aoplogies, please keep up the great blogs!!

    Comment by DHF5811
    17.
    September 30, 2009
    1:34 am

    Steve – Thanks again, for both the compliment, and the stimulating debate.

    DHF5811 – You’ve got nothing to apologise for at all, but thank you all the same.

    Comment by Bryan
    18.
    September 30, 2009
    4:45 pm

    I respect all of you for the maturity of this debate and the ability to differ sharply, but with respect. It is a pleasure to blog here.

    Thanks

    Patrick

    Bangkok

    Comment by Patrick Hennessy
    19.
    October 1, 2009
    12:18 am

    Thank you Patrick.

    Comment by Bryan

    Comments on this article are now closed.


Search outsidein