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  • Poverty in Ireland

    August 21, 2008 @ 2:19 pm | by Bryan

    Combat Poverty insists it has a major role to play in helping to provide a community focus for national anti-poverty policies. A review of the organisation's operations is expected to be completed for the next month. Photograph: Fran Veale Photograph: Fran Veale

    In a really good article in today’s Irish Times, Carl O’Brien looks at poverty in Ireland. That more than 6% of the country lives in ‘consistent poverty’ surprises me.

    And here’s why: not too long ago, if I’m not mistaken, most Irish people were relatively poor. So the memory of poverty should be very real for much of the country. Although this may be idealistic, even naive, I would have thought that there would be an overwhelming level of sympathy for those who have not benefitted from the good times. My expectation would be that people would not allow 5,000 people to live without a home, 43,000 households to be on local authority housing lists and 36,000 children to live in families on social housing waiting lists.

    In his biography, Andrew Brown chronicles the transition of Sweden from a relatively poor, socialist country into a wealthy contemporary European state. Describing the attitude towards those who got left behind during the transition, he writes that people felt a rather superstitious contempt, as if their bad luck might rub off on everyone else.

    I wonder if that is what has happened here. Do people feel that the poor have only themselves to blame for their plight?

    • 8 Comments »

    1.
    August 22, 2008
    6:37 am

    ‘Describing the attitude towards those who got left behind during the transition, he writes that people felt a rather superstitious contempt, as if their bad luck might rub off on everyone else’

    That’s not what’s going on here at all, imho. You say “not too long ago, if I’m not mistaken, most Irish people were relatively poor.” Yes - so it follows that, rightly or wrongly, those people now believe that their effort and hard work is the primary reason they are no longer relatively poor. They are also conscious that there *were* jobs available for everyone at the peaks of the boom.

    Hence the silent attitude is that if anyone has been left behind it’s their own fault - the jobs were there, the education is and was available and so on. Anyone left behind has been left behind because they are lazy, thick, drunk or drug addicts. And those that have made good don’t see why they should pay anymore to give the unfortunate more of a leg-up.

    Obviously I’m only guessing but I’m convinced that’s the real attitude of the silent masses. It mightn’t be correct - but you’d struggle to make them accept anything more nuanced.

    Irish people are closer to Americans when it comes to our attitude to the socially downtrodden than we realise or would care to admit.

    Comment by dealga
    2.
    August 22, 2008
    8:56 am

    Well what are we suggesting here - increased building of local authority housing and an increase in unemployment benefits, or a more broad based plan to educate and motivate people to work themsevles out of poverty? Because i think thats the only way you’ll bring the rest of the population on board with the plan. As Dealga suggested, most people in this country do feel that if they could get themsevles from being the poorest people in Europe to almost being the richest in the world, then why can’t the this small proportion of Irish society do the same, especially given the opportunities available in this country over the last 10-15 years? I don’t think this is an unfair point of view to have.

    Comment by Owen
    3.
    August 22, 2008
    2:57 pm

    Owen and Dealga - The truth is that I don’t have a strong opinion either way, yet. I’m trying to understand the thinking that’s there and then maybe I’ll be able to figure out whether or not I agree with it.

    Ireland fascinates me because it is a great example of socio-economic change. But I think it’s also a growing example of social inequity and I wonder why that is.

    You both bring up an important question. Why is it that the poor are still poor whereas others managed to climb the ladder? Is the reason really laziness, addiction or a lack of sense? And even if that were the case (I’m struggling to believe it could be that simple), what about their children? Poverty is a vicious cycle and surely no-one wants children to be born into, or grow up in that cycle?

    Comment by Bryan
    4.
    August 22, 2008
    7:34 pm

    If Owen really thinks that Irish people are now nearly the richest people in the world he should get off the island and have a while living on mainland Europe (say Benelux/Germany?) where they are much richer on almost every level. Having a few mega-multinationals located in Ireland, who re-patriat their profits, may distort things and make Ireland look statistically rich but as an ex-pat Irish person I can say that on trips home it still looks relatively poor on most levels, the odd Ferrari notwithstanding. From the incompetent health service to the poor clothed people queueing for buses in the cold on Burgh quay it sure does not look rich to outside eyes, they must be so jealous in Paris, Brussels, Frankfurt, Bonn….or Berlin

    Comment by Jim C.
    5.
    August 22, 2008
    11:25 pm

    Certainly a level of contempt for the impoverished in Ireland exists as some believe that becoming wealthy was only a matter of availing of the opportunity… but perhaps this contempt is surface level only- borne out of greed and displaced arragonce.

    Not everyone started at the same point 15 years ago. Most successful Irish people today have came from poor working class families not impoverished urban areas where the social problems were already profound
    (Jim the ex-pat a rich country is not defined as one where ferraris are commonplace or where Prada replaces St Bernard. If you feel Ireland is not one of the wealthiest countries in the world you are simply incorrect - but if you want to speak about our lack of dress sense you may have a point but probably not under the title of Poverty).

    Comment by michael strasb
    6.
    August 24, 2008
    12:23 am

    I think Michael brings up a really good point. Not everyone started off in the same place.

    I also think that most people blame the poor for being poor. How else do you explain the fact that overseas aid makes more headlines than local campaigns addressing homelessness and urban poverty. What frustrates me is that when kids start shooting each as a result of gang feuds and drug related crimes, no-one blames society’s indifference. We blame drugs, the law, the gardai and the criminals, but never our own attitude to the conditions that give rise to criminality.

    Comment by Bryan
    7.
    September 26, 2008
    9:49 pm

    Bryan, Sorry for arriving late to this thread, but: What if our attitude to those who have remained poor is a negative one due to fear? Fear of becoming poor again ourselves? Because most of us are only two pay-cheques away from homelessness ourselves and we just do not want to look OURSELVES in the face when we see poverty?

    Yep…….. I think it’s fear.

    Comment by Tim
    8.
    February 4, 2009
    11:39 am

    Cool im doind a school project HAND WRIGHON on child poverty could u please send me the main detales
    tanx

    Comment by jenna

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