outsidein

• Kevin Myers can keep his money

  July 11, 2008 @ 11:19 am | by Bryan

  Yesterday, a friend phoned to ask if I had read Kevin Myers’ opinion piece in the Irish Independent. I went to their website and there it was. The title jumped out at me. He really had written something titled Africa is giving nothing to anyone — apart from AIDS.

  Mr. Myers’ thesis is that aid to Africa is a bad idea. It keeps them from dying. Should these Africans grow up, they will just become murderous, AK47 wielding sex machines who spread all manner of disease, not least of which is AIDS. Ah, and some of those who do survive to adulthood may make it to Europe. Who wants that? Myers isn’t all bad though. He raises concerns about the environment – the sheer numbers of good for nothing Africans is apparently causing untold ecological damage.

  Deep breath. Believe it or not, I was a little upset when I read that article. I read it a few times. Maybe I was hoping that I had made a mistake and was making things up. The more I thought about it, the more confused I became. How can such an obviously intelligent person write such drivel?

   There is a lot wrong with Africa at the moment. There has been a lot wrong with her for a while now. And there are reasons. A lot of the ‘developed’ world was built on the back of the resources and people of Africa. A lot of conflicts there are funded by external forces. The debate in Western society over who would make a better patron for the continent, themselves or the Chinese, points to part of the problem. And of course, there have been too many instances of failed leadership on our part. But all that aside, we are making progress. It is painfully slow, but it is progress.

  Kevin Myers, keep your money. Africa will come right eventually, with or without you. In your case sir, I would rather it was without you.
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76 Comments »
1.
July 11, 2008
11:44 am
Don’t worry Bryan, I don’t think anyone actually reads/listens to anything Myers says anymore.
Comment by An Fear Bolg
2.
July 11, 2008
11:51 am
The Independent published this…..?
I do not read The Independent by the way so have no idea what it is like..
Comment by Gary
3.
July 11, 2008
12:17 pm
An Fear Blog - I hope you’re right.
Gary - That was my reaction too!
Comment by Bryan
4.
July 11, 2008
12:17 pm
The words ‘empirical’ and ‘measured’ appear to escape the Independent editorial/comment commissioning editors. This is a disgrace and a new low for Myers who appears to be on some mission to declare a fatwa on the rules of sensitivity. I remember reading a piece he wrote in the Irishman’s Diary about 5/6 years ago on a similar topic that – whilst carrying some of the shallow and one-sided ‘Africa can’t help itself’ clichés – at least appeared more carefully considered and constructed. It is an indictment on the public domain of this country that the most circulated daily ‘broadsheet’, an opinion-forming and in places respected publication, publishes comment pieces purely to grab attention and enrage readers rather than stimulate debate. As an Irishman I’m embarrassed.
Comment by Seán C
5.
July 11, 2008
12:29 pm
Sorry Brian, I know its humilating but until Africans take responsibility for their own failures its a waste of time for anybody in the west to intervene. Look at Zimbabwe and Malaysia with the same GDP in 1980. Critical self analysis is the only way forward and the sooner the better for ordinary Africans.
Comment by Michael
6.
July 11, 2008
12:34 pm
Hi Bryan, first off I’d like to congratulate you on the blog, very interesting indeed. I must say, even by Kevin Myers’ own nauseating standards, that article takes the biscuit. I almost groaned on reading his final pay-off line (”And then they’ll come here- great’). It doesn’t matter that the man is at this stage beyond parody, that is still a disgusting statement. As a doctor working in the Irish system, I know first-hand the amount of poor research and downright lies that go into the man’s columns- he’s quite literally making stuff up as he goes along and ignoring an incovenient facts- such as the propping up of European agriculture with massive grants while exploiting African farmers. So: liar, racist, bully, ex-gameshow host. Quite the CV.
Comment by Chris
7.
July 11, 2008
12:37 pm
Michael, I agree. And if you read my post Painful, Frustratingly Slow Change, I hope you will see evidence of that self analysis. Irrespective of what is happening in the worst warzones on the continent, to conclude that the people there should be left to die out is disgusting.
Comment by Bryan
8.
July 11, 2008
1:47 pm
Hi Bryan. I know that some of the language used by Kevin Myers can be provacative and insulting but I think critism of this aspect of his article is missing the point. As far as I can see he is saying that western aid is making things worse and maybe prolonging the crisis in Africa by preventing social change. Africans will never die out ,they are too strong for that but maybe we are contributing to their opression by allowing their leaders to do the minimum necessary to keep their people alive thus preventing necessary reform.
Comment by Michael
9.
July 11, 2008
1:50 pm
Myers’s standard ploy is to take something with a grain of truth, marry it to an outrageous, controversial statement and then finally attach the pop issue of the day. The important thing is not to indulge him, all he’s trying to do is promote a reaction. So the thing to do is instead of reacting angrily, just laugh, rub him on the head and say “who’s a silly little man then, who’s a silly little man then.” Sort of like when your 3 year old has a tantrum….
Comment by enda
10.
July 11, 2008
2:09 pm
Chris - Thank you. You have my sympathy as well as deep respect as a frontline employee of the HSE.
Michael - Again, I hear what you are saying, but I’m not sure I agree. How is that suggestion different from allowing the Hutus to wipe out the Tutsis so that there isn’t any ethnic tension in the future. Or in the case of Bosnia allowing the Albanians to be wiped out completely. Once they are all dead, all ethnic differences cease to exist. Isn’t that unconscionable?
Enda- I guess you’re right. The more attention he gets, the greater the incentive to do something similar later on. But it is really hard to let it go.
Comment by Bryan
11.
July 11, 2008
2:26 pm
This is the same columnist that published the infamous “Mother of Bastards” article (to the shame of the IT), and the same newspaper (Indo) where Ruth Dudley Edwards revealed that the Special Olympics was a sham because the participants were not the best in the world. Don’t worry about it too much.
Comment by Coops
12.
July 11, 2008
3:41 pm
I cannot believe the Independent printed that. What a disgraceful ignorant little man Kevin Myers is.
Comment by Deirdre
13.
July 11, 2008
4:05 pm
One gets the feeling that we have attention seeker of the juvenile kind… the print media’s equivalent of a shock jock! Kinda reminds me of the delinquents whose anti-social behaviour increases exponentially with the level of attention they get from the public…
Comment by Itayi
14.
July 11, 2008
4:52 pm
Sorry Brian, I know its humilating but until Africans take responsibility for their own failures its a waste of time for anybody in the west to intervene. Look at Zimbabwe and Malaysia with the same GDP in 1980. Critical self analysis is the only way forward and the sooner the better for ordinary Africans.
Critical self-analysis of what, being cold-war proxies straight out of empire? Has Africa had a ghost of a chance of getting itself together in the time since? I really despair that yours is quite a popular opinion.
A modern incarnation of the white man’s burden.
Comment by Steve K
15.
July 11, 2008
5:52 pm
A disarming similarity between these two pieces of writing:
“Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like most of you, I have stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation there.
The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him.”
from “Africa is giving nothing to anyone — apart from AIDS”
a piece by Kevin Myers
published in The Irish Independent, July 10th 2008
“The pious missionary goes out to Central Africa and establishes missionary stations for negroes.
Finally, sound and healthy–though primitive and backward–people will be transformed, under the name of our ‘higher civilization’, into a motley of lazy and brutalized mongrels.”
from “Mein Kampf” , first published July 18th 1925
by Adolf Hitler
Volume Two - The National Socialist Movement
Chapter II: The State
Comment by Rory Sturdy
16.
July 11, 2008
7:14 pm
I think the general consensus is that it was a disgraceful article. I guess it’s one way to get your stuff read.
Comment by Bryan
17.
July 11, 2008
7:36 pm
Myer’s thesis, in less colorful form, was first broached by ecologist Garret Hardin about 30 years ago. And indeed, what the future holds is the slow Africanization of Europe. One can see it already in Paris, Brussels, and London. A damn shame went a people lose their will to live, their will to defend themselves, and the ability even to handle the truth
Comment by gobineau
18.
July 11, 2008
7:37 pm
I will never ever buy the Irish Independent again.
Comment by roosta
19.
July 11, 2008
7:39 pm
As usual Myers’ critics indulge mainly in ad-hominem attacks rather than arguing the issues. Many Africans would agree with what he has to say. For instance, why did Ethiopia’s population double since the 1985 band aid era while Ireland’s stayed more or less the same? Do we blame Queen Victoria? Nice one (makes us feel better, aah). Has it anything to do with misrule while wars are waged?
Good to see the ubiquitoius (and lazy) Hitler comparison has been made. What law of the internet regarding that has now been met? At least Myers saw it coming referring to the predictable oncoming “self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of our own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy”.
Comment by Jim C.
20.
July 11, 2008
8:04 pm
Jim C - as an African, and one who has heard the opinion of many Africans on this matter, I assure you that few, if any of us agree with Mr Myers. I’ll say it again for your sake: irrespective of what you think of aid, the suggestion that children should be allowed to die off lest they grow into disease spreading murderers is disgusting. There is no higher or deeper issue here. Not one that I can see anyway. But that may be because I am one of those Aids spreading, war mongering, good for nothing Africans.
Comment by Bryan
21.
July 11, 2008
9:01 pm
Jim C - If the shoe fits… and KM seems to have made several trips to the shoe rack! Actually it is his journalism that is full of ‘lazy and indeed ubiquitous’ anologies and he simply peddles the stereotypes that are quite at home in the BNP. Many notable (including African) journalists have penned critical but fair pieces on the Africa but none of the downright venom that earns KM a crust. The point is, he can make whatever point he wants without plumbing the depths as he has consistently done over the years.
Comment by Itayi
22.
July 11, 2008
9:03 pm
Bryan, thank you for exposing the essential inhumanity at the heart of Kevin Myers’s opinion piece. I think what we are seeing is the deterioration of a once incisive intellect into a sensation-seeking one. Myers wrote a quite searingly brilliant indictment of the IRA after the Enniskillen atrocity in 1987, but his latest article is deeply unworthy of such honest analysis. Maybe he is endeavouring to provoke examination and self-examination. If so, to countenance with such equanimity the deaths of thousands of innocent people is nonetheless unforgiveable.
Comment by Ann
23.
July 11, 2008
11:45 pm
He’s right, of course. Time to invoke the Prime Directive of Non-Interference. Let Africa settle its own problems, or not. Not our problem, never was.
Comment by Tabby
24.
July 12, 2008
7:25 am
The point I believe myers was trying to make is that africa and its people should be doing more to help itself. But he went way over the top in developing and arguing his point. It’s not right to sit back and let people starve to death and then look on it as an acceptable form of population control.
Comment by Stephen
25.
July 12, 2008
9:34 am
Hello Bryan. I am glad to have found this blog.
The article by Myers you discussed, is truly shameful, bigoted, ignorant and lacking insight, understanding or decency. I am astonished that it was accepted for publication. The problems in that huge and varied continent stem from a large number of sources, some affecting some parts, some others.
From my limited knowledge, the problems are fuelled by a combination of climate, slavery and imperialism effects, trade and educational inequalities, cultural and religious superstitions, war and terrible diseases, especially malaria and AIDS combined with poor health facilities.
Comment by Sharon
26.
July 12, 2008
4:45 pm
“Or in the case of Bosnia allowing the Albanians to be wiped out completely”.
The war in Bosnia had nothing to do with the Albanians.
“and the same newspaper (Indo) where Ruth Dudley Edwards revealed that the Special Olympics was a sham”
Mary Ellen Synon wrote the offending article referred to. Lazy.
Comment by David
27.
July 12, 2008
5:04 pm
Myers’ disgusting article deserves nothing but contempt.
Comment by Niall
28.
July 12, 2008
5:34 pm
Bryan, this is my first time to comment on these pages but unfortunately i am not simply drawn to comment on the real substance of the subject. What is missing from your blog in my opinion (unfortunately similiar to that of Myers) is real engagement with the topic.
Outline the differences between humanitarian aid and aid for governmental reconstruction, building democratic societies or economic development and how the former is something we must continue to support until the latter is successful. Outline the challenges facing African nations which we in Europe have never faced….the sheer size of many of the countries with the most problems, the fact that being landlocked is an immense disadvantage, the fact that conflict REGIONS breed conflict…the list is quite long. Give us your real views on Africa not just a summary(though true) that Africa is on the right track and as you say slowly improving. Ask Myers to give us his solutions to the problems apart from a completely cynical, unhelpful opinion that we should just “let them all die” which I am sure he does not even remotely believe in himself. Your blog exists because Ireland wants to hear the African voice among us. For too long we’ve been hearing the white man’s solution!!! Please give us more substantial pieces. Finally I too am delighted with the start The Irish Times has made in its attempt to engage its readers and that you can give us another view, so please give us your real views!!
Comment by michael
29.
July 12, 2008
5:48 pm
Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. Michael and others have brought up something I would like to clarify. This post is not on the merits or otherwise of aid or development in Africa. Those of you interested in some of my thoughts on that issue can read this opinion piece: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0326/1206144724798.html
Aid and development is something that I am sure I will blog about quite a lot. The purpose of this particular post was to share my bewilderment at the fact that someone could actually write that sort of thing and have it printed. I think the moment we start trying to understand the finer points of Mr. Myers’ argument there is a problem. I find his article so offensive that I don’t think it deserves to have its deeper meaning examined.
Comment by Bryan
30.
July 12, 2008
8:23 pm
Its obvious that Kevin Myers has lost his marbles and is more to be pitied than anything else. Its the publishers of this ignorant, racist and insulting nonsence that should be held to account
Comment by finbar
31.
July 12, 2008
8:41 pm
I am delighted that i could actually engage with you Bryan and apologise for what seems a somewhat harsh comment.
I am sure your blog exists because of your personal merits as much as the need in Ireland to have the immigrants voice heard.
I was infuriated by Myers article because amongst other things it completely misleads people on the issue of Aid and Development. Perhaps the greater problem as you rightly stated is that it can even get published!
(Your piece on Development is very interesting and i hope we can discuss it further soon…i wish i had seen it previously)
Comment by michael strasb
32.
July 12, 2008
9:30 pm
If you support Kevin Myer’s bold and courageous (not to mention true) article, then please send a letter of support to him at the Independent (where he is doubtless being showered with letters of indignant Liberal rage). The e-mail address is: letters@independent.ie
Here is the e-mail I just sent:
What a refreshing (and massively courageous) reversal of all the usual, lazy tear-jerkers reprimanding us for “not doing enough to save Africa.” Kudos to Kevin Myers, Ireland’s National Treasure, for being a thinking-journalist (that rarest of breeds in this PC-obsessed age). Yes, Myer’s article about the terminally failing “Dark Continent” is so pessimistic and disturbing, and yet so undeniably true. We can’t possibly save such a basketcase when our charity makes the problem bigger.
God bless you, Kevin Myers, for having the courage so many of your truckling colleagues lack. (Note to the Editor: Give this guy a raise.)
Comment by Justin Strauss
33.
July 12, 2008
9:54 pm
Finbar - I agree
Michael - Thank you, but an apology is not necessary. I’ll write on aid and development on Monday and Tuesday. You sound like it is a topic you have given a lot of thought. I’m looking forward to getting your opinion.
Justin - Help me understand. The bold part, I get. I’m struggling a little with the ‘true’ bit. But the real question I have is don’t you find it hateful? Not even a little in poor taste? As for factual accuracy, or ‘true’, I have never held a gun of any description and I don’t have AIDS. So at the very least isn’t this a case of ugly generalisation?
Comment by Bryan
34.
July 13, 2008
11:30 pm
Although the statement that famine is a “mechanism for reducing surplus population”, I find the argument - the Myers/Trevelyan argument - that “the judgment of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral
evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people” to be not only morally but also intellectually bankrupt. By painting such broad neo-Malthusian brush strokes one completely undermines any and all case-studies of the social, political and economic climate in a given country or region, and how it got that way. Meyers points are at best ignorant, despite his visit to Ethiopia, and at worst borderline racist. The suggestion that humanitarian aid perpetuates poverty and sustains corrupt regimes is an old and tired one, and takes no account of the effects of colonialism (Ethiopia themselves were a colonial power), international financial policies, the use of Africa for proxy warfare between the superpowers, ethnic
tensions and cultural traditions - and that is only the beginning of what he has chosen to ignore. Indeed Myers remarks are so glaringly superficial that they can only be designed for one purpose: to appeal to any anti-African prejudice his readers may have. And I might add that anytime I hear an Irish person complain about immigration, as Myers does at the close of his piece, I’m forced to laugh at how quickly we forget that from the 1840s until the 1980s Ireland exported millions of its poor around the globe where they were met with similarly appalling accusatory commentary.
The reverse side of the Myers/Trevelyan argument is that starving people need to be fed. If one choses not to engage in any charitable acts that is their prerogative, and humanitarian aid issues are indeed problematic, but Myers can spare everyone the judgment on the life an African child will grow up to live from his no doubt mansion outside Dublin worth millions. As an Irish-American who recently
completed a Master’s degree in African politics in the UK, I suggest that Myers, and people who agree with him do a bit more reading on individual case-studies rather than lumping all of Africa together (contrary to another of his statements
pulled from thin air, Africa is more often discussed in
pan-continental terms than Germany, Poland, Laos or Korea are for Europe or East Asia). Then he should read a bit more on his own history.
If he’d rather not then I’m sure the BNP has an opening for a
speech-writer were he to make himself available.
Comment by Steven
35.
July 14, 2008
11:23 am
Hello Bryan, great work with this forum. I hadn’t realised in my previous entry that you were the author of the Irish Times piece earlier this year: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0326/1206144724798.html and wonder if I could query your point in the article, here copied:
“And what about the millions who are starving and sick? The answer lies with remittances and partnerships. If donor countries genuinely want to help the world’s poorest, they should open up their borders. The evidence is unequivocal. Remittances, money sent back home by immigrants, far outweighs aid both in volume and in terms of reaching the intended beneficiaries.”
How do you square this logic with the drastic shortage of health professionals in many African countries, even with the present levels of migration. As an expatriate doctor, you must surely be aware that, for example, in Ethiopia, there are only three doctors per every 100,000 people and that there are allegedly more Malawian doctors in Manchester, UK, than in Malawi. And only 50 of the 600 Zambian doctors trained from independence continued to practice in the country by 2004 (Ref. Human Resources for Health Report: http://www.who.int/hrh/documents/JLi_hrh_report.pdf
The opportunity for any worker to migrate is an important and precious freedom. Do you have an opinion on how the seeminlgy conflicting human rights to health and to migration could be balanced?
p.s. I am loathe to type the name Kevin Myers again but as a brief rejoinder to Jim C’s response to my entry above, I would suggest that my comparison was not lazy. Rather, in being able to compare exact quotes (albeit tranlsated from German for Hiter’s piece) and show what I would consider a similarity worth noting, it is vigilance (remember Milton Friedman’s suggested price of liberty…) rather than laziness. Myers may believe he can shame those who would make such comparisons into silence by premtively labelling them the “self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority.”
However, is deciding one’s attitude to a response in advance not exactly what Myers claims to railing against - the stifling of debate?
It reminds me of Herman Hesse’s comment on how “If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us. ”
I think this obervation could equally apply to myself, Kevin Myers, Adolf Hitler or anyone for that matter.
Comment by Rory Sturdy
36.
July 14, 2008
12:31 pm
Steven - Thank you. Very well put.
Rory - Like you, I’m trying to put Mr. Myers behind me, so I’ll leave that alone.
The issue of the skills shortage in many African countries is interesting. The Economist did an interesting special on migration (Jan 3rd 2008) which brought up the same issue. Their conclusion was that working conditions for professionals need to improve.
My take is this. Lets take Zimbabwe for example. Only a quarter of doctors trained there stay in the country. A big reason is that I was being paid less than €100 a month. Another reason is that the health system was starting to fall apart. There are many times that health people know how to treat a patient but just don’t have the equipment or drugs to do that. The biggest need in Zimbabwe’s health system is not more health personel but a change in policy, in government, and an injection of infrustructure and money.
The same is true of many other parts of the developing world. I actually encourage those who have the means to leave to do so. Many ill people in places like Zimbabwe can only afford to buy their medication because they have a relative abroad. That same relative is the one who keeps them from starving. If that person can also manage to better themselves while in Europe, the US or wherever, so much the better. They will hopefully be in a position to go back home one day with badly needed skills. Even if they never return, they are often able to provide for many more people away than they would were they at home.
With respect to those who are left behind to man the hospitals, things are not easy. But once people start leaving, some governments begin to improve working conditions to stem the flow. In other cases, expats replace those who have left.They are paid higher wages by the agencies and governments who send them. They also end up picking up skills which are invaluable - in the case of medicine, a lot of doctors do stints in places like Zimbabwe and Malawi for tropical medicine or surgical experience.
There are no easy answers. No solution is ideal. But, I am sure that Ireland was better off with people leaving at the time of the famine. Although the gaps left may have been devastating, things would certainly have been worse had those people stayed.
Sometimes people will ask me where I’m from and after I tell them, they will say something like, ‘you must be very grateful to be here’. I am. But there is an assumption on their part that everything I left behind was bad and everything here is wonderful. It is incredibly difficult at times to live in a place not designed for you. If anything, the laws are designed to get rid of you as soon as you are no longer useful or wanted. For that reason, I have friends who although the option is available, refuse to emigrate from Zimbabwe and Malawi. Migration cuts both ways.
Comment by Bryan
37.
July 14, 2008
1:07 pm
Thanks for your response Bryan. It’s easy to get lost in high-level policy debates on this topic and lose some sense of the practical realities. I must say, were I in your position, I would certainly have done the same thing and sought a position in a rich country - and for the same reasons you outlined.
The comment made by many people that ‘You must be grateful to be here’ is somewhat typical I’m sure, but of course dismissive of the fact that the recipient country of health workers is also very lucky - to be able to attract health professionals from other countries.
It’s but one example of how the scales are often tipped towards the richer countries. If Ireland fails to train enough health professionals of its own, it can attract professionals from other nations. This holds the benefits you outlined for the individual workers and their dependants but also the costs - quite high costs - to the home nation.
Ireland - and all rich nations - benefit from the skills of professionals not trained in country. Nations with much less resources are paying to educate health professionals and Ireland reaps the benefit. And then the average person on the street believes that the expatriate is the only ‘lucky’ one.
A clearer understanding of the costs and benefits - on all sides - of ever increasing migration globally is required. And a good start would be the end of the portrayal by mass media of immigration as a cost of economic growth rather than what is actually a benefit to the nation on the vast majority of cases.
Therefore, should the rich recipient nation of human resources perhaps put a monetary value on receiving, say, a doctor from Zimbabwe without having incurred the costs of educating this doctor?
Comment by Rory Sturdy
38.
July 14, 2008
4:44 pm
I agree Rory. I also think that immigration shouldn’t just be viewed in economic terms. Sometimes humanity is lost when the cost-benefit analysis of immigration is viewed solely in terms of money.
That aside, hopefully when remittances as well as the experience gained by those immigrants who go back home are taken into consideration, things balance out. Hopefully when all is said and done, both sides gain.
Comment by Bryan
39.
July 14, 2008
10:20 pm
Bryan,
Sorry I have arrived at this topic so late, but it gives me the chance to consider all previous posts before I respond.
First: Don’t take Myers’ piece personally It is his job to be controversial and obnoxious; he is quite the professional there.
Second: He has, for years, attempted to stimulate frank debate in Ireland about immigration and racism - to little avail thus far. He would agree with me that we must address even the most hateful and idiotic fears some people have before we will ever have a chance of progress on the acceptance/integration project.
Third: His ploy has worked to a certain degree in that this post seems to have attracted the second highest number of responses on your blog thus far (if I am not mistaken) That is good.
Fourth: I truly believe that the most important voice in any room is the voice of dissent; the unpopular one. If everyone agrees with me, I simply pat myself on the back and carry on as before; If someone disagrees with me, Imay be spurred into re-checking my approach and either confirming or changing it. Thus, the unpopular voice has improved matters. If that voice never speaks its unpopular word, I continue my path ignorant of its existence and it just festers and grows, unaddressed and frustrated; this is dangerous and unjust and precisely what many disenfranchised peoples around the world (including Africa) are forced to endure by their own corrupt leaders.
Fifth: I like what John O’Shea said about Myers’ piece. It was vitriolic to an entire continent of people but its effect MAY be to focus attention on the fact that Government Aid should be stopped for corrupt regimes that do not use that money for their people’s benefit and, instead, that money should be given to NGOs (like GOAL), so that human beings will benefit directy and lives will be saved with it rather than palaces built for Bollinger-swilling narcissists.
Sixth: Keep the chin up!
Comment by Tim
40.
July 14, 2008
10:39 pm
Hi Tim,
You are right, it has stimulated a lot of debate! I’m all for clever ways of stimulating debate, but I also feel some things should be sacred. There should surely be some lines that can’t be crossed. Also, there was SO MUCH generalisation in his article. I have HUGE respect for John O’Shea, but I don’t believe that ALL African Governments are corrupt, just as I don’t believe that all Western government officials are immune from corruption. Articles like that one get people thinking in broad brush strokes which end up painting a lot of people unfairly.
At the end of the day, I guess I still feel he crossed the line.
Comment by Bryan
41.
July 14, 2008
10:57 pm
Bryan, of course western governments are corrupt! Arguably, some of them gave the lead to some African leaders with their cruel brand of imperialism exploiting indigens. Also, getting some people to THINK, even if only in broad brush strokes, is better than having people not thinking about the issues at all. Let’s face it: most people are too self-absorbed to think about others at all.
Milk his piece for your own ends; revile it as well, if you must, but use it at the same time and draw some good out of bad.
Comment by Tim
42.
July 14, 2008
11:02 pm
You are right Tim. Thanks for that advice.
Comment by Bryan
43.
July 16, 2008
11:27 am
It’s bad enough sharing a nationality with Myers, something he has made me profoundly ashamed of today. His few hundred words printed on the Independent last Thursday under the guise of a column are so weak in reasoning and low in quality and uncover a rather desperate need for attention, rather like a hooker past her best who pulls up her skirt to passersby. Only she is trying to feed a hungry belly, unlike his which is full of food and drink and ready to fuel a “sexually hyperactive indigent”- to use his carefully selected words. But enough of his motives.
I will try and treat his arguments with the respect that he so obviously doesn’t- it’s incredible to think that he was once a journalist. His argument boils down to why we should keep on giving money to Africans when they just keep procreating like rabbits or ravaging each other in wars. Wars which have taught them nothing, unlike us westerners, or first-worlders, or is it just non-Africans?
He then make some outrageous and weak points, unworthy of leaving cert rhetoric. The first is that Ireland’s population was reduced after the famine, while Africa’s increases. He choses to ignore such factors as the possibility of emigration, with America, England and Australia being rather more welcoming than the Italian, Spanish or Greek coasts. Or that there can be no comparison between 1890’s rural Ireland and most of Africa which is still anthropologically-speaking in huts. He also choses to ignore that most of Africa’s problems are remnants of colonial and present day westerner domination. Most of the wars in Africa are caused by either the artificial division of the continent into countries which have no ethnic relevance or more importantly are due to the corrupt puppet regimes kept in place by the western multi-nationals which ransack Africa’s resources.
Which brings us to the most outrageous of his claims: ‘Africa’s peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing catastrophic ecological degradation.’ What on earth is he talking about? Just look at Congo/Zaire, probably the richest part of the world in terms of natural resources. Years of CIA backing sure made Mobutu and American companies rich, but what of the locals? Nothing. In the last ten years three damns have been built in the Congo, but do locals have electricity? No, that’s all sold off to China. The same China who is buying Sudanese oil and therefore today was a little reticent to agree with the Hague’s indictment of the Sudanese president Omar al-Bashir for war crimes. And the list goes on… Congo’s territory contains almost 70 percent of the world’s supply of coltan — a metal ore used in mobile phone batteries — about half of the world’s cobalt, about a quarter of all industrial-grade diamonds and large reserves of gold, uranium and copper. And where is it going? Or does Nigeria, Biafra and Shell ring a bell? Or what about the westerner companies that then sell the guns, bombs and military planes to those same regimes, thereby recouping some of those pay-offs? The guns that you so despicably talk about - oh no sorry, he carefully refers to them as Kalashnikovs - first-hand evidence is it?
He then throws in a few sensational little points, and if they contain a little sex, the better. Female circumcision, rape, Kalashnikov-bearing, khat-chewing. God, it’s like a cheap late night movie. And of course, he covers all his bases by predicting “the self-righteous wrath of, well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority”. Again the only thing which is becoming more and more predictable is his pathetic little efforts at notoriety. Has life really dealt him such a poor hand these days?
It’s a shame really because he could’ve made some interesting points. He might’ve mentioned the futility of cancelling the debt of some of these countries without regime change, which would of course mean more expensive oil, electricity, mobile phone batteries, diamonds, etc, for us first-worlders. Or that we’re the ones paying for the cancellation of that debt, as the banks are being reimbursed by our governments, therefore us. Or that all the fuss, and a rightful fuss it is, don’t get me wrong, about Zimbabwe is that Mugabe is someone who just won’t play ball with the west. We don’t hear much about other countries - Nigeria and Congo to name just a couple whose people in key areas aren’t much better off.
I think the west bears most of the responsibility and so should bear the brunt of the costs, which might mean him having one glass of chianti less this week. And yes, there are situations, like the bursting slums of cities like Nairobi, which, with very high birth-rates, don’t seem to have a solution in sight. Only maybe he should talk to people like Mr Bush, whose condition for accepting American aid is that those countries who sign up promote abstinence, rather than contraception, as a means of fighting AIDS and consequently high natality. And we won’t talk about all the catholic missions who run hospitals and their attitude to reducing procreation.
No. I’m afraid his effort says more about him than it does about Africa. I’ve heard - I’m only 33 so I probably missed his best years - that he used to be a journalist. I’m not quite sure what to call him now. There’s dignity in that “wide-eyed child gazing, yet again, at the camera”. I see none in his picture lately.
Comment by Paul Roantree
44.
July 16, 2008
4:19 pm
Paul - I do like your passion but i disagree with this general thesis - “most of Africa’s problems are remnants of colonial and present day westerner domination”. With all the goodwill in the world, I fear that you are feeding the Mugabe/Mbeki rhetoric about colonialism. As a Zimbabwean I am conscious of the deplorable effect of colonialism on social structures, not to mention resources and self-esteem etc. I will not lessen the effect of colonisation having studied African history at university; BUT I refuse to deny Africans the dignity (and consequences) of causation. I believe that whilst the legacy of colonisation will continue to be a barrier to development, in many African countries (including my own), chronic lack of leadership - coupled with lack vigilance on the part of citizens - is the biggest contributor to Africa’s issues.
I am a banking lawyer and recently attended a project finance seminar. One of the speakers advises developing countries on power/infrastructure projects and told us about a recent trip to Nigeria where he discovered that there is significant opposition to electrification because certain government officals sell generators and so stood to lose out should the electricity grid be improved. I would imagine that this scenario is very common in Africa and my blood boils when people like Mugabe blame their countries’ travails on colonialism!
Comment by Tinashe
45.
July 16, 2008
5:33 pm
Hi,
Just read your piece on Myers article in todays IT, the reason there has not been much reaction to Myers is that he is a fanatical imperialist who probably sees Africans as his inferiors, just as he sees the native Irish as inferior to his Britishness that borders on fascist, he has in the past courted this kind of bad press. Kevin Myers has a warped view of the world and is without shame.
I still think he has the right to say what he wants but say compared to the journalism of Robert Fisk, Kevin Myers is a smudge on his notebook.(count the cliches in any Myers piece)
Comment by RAY
46.
July 16, 2008
7:29 pm
Perhaps it is time for the Independent to realise that controversial is an over rated word and one would wonder why Mr Myers is continually given a forum to express his opinions.
Comment by edel
47.
July 16, 2008
11:38 pm
Paul & Tinashe - With the greatest respect to my compatriot, I’m with Paul. I don’t think the examples of some crooked officials in Nigeria or Robert Mugabe take away for the world’s collective responsibility for Africa’s condition. While I totally agree that we need to acknowledge our responsibility and pick ourselves up, you can’t divorce Africa’s plight from her circumstances. There has been, and continues to be a ridiculuos amount of meddling in African affairs. Just look at how the West and China are fighting over who gets to pimp the continent.
There is a desperate need for more strong leadership. We do need to take personal responsibility. But there are many reasons for our plight.
Having said that, my problem with the Myers piece was the tone, inhumanity and unfair generalisations made. I am unable to get beyond these to look at ‘the substance’.
Ray - He does have the right to say what he likes. I’m grateful to people like you who have expressed how they feel about his words.
Edel - my sentiments exactly
Comment by Bryan
48.
July 16, 2008
11:58 pm
Kevin Myers article brought tears to my eyes and will continue to do so. Equally have the responses that link it to a rational or measured debate on aid programmes or the responses that shrug it off as Myers up to his antics again.
Such blatant disrespect for human dignity and human life, including the life of a child is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
I commend the Immigrant Council of Ireland for taking action and for lodging a complaint with the Gardaí, believing the article to breach Section 2(1) of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act. I sincerely hope their action results in a successful prosecution.
Comment by Danielle
49.
July 17, 2008
3:23 am
Paul,
The Great Hunger was 1845-1849 and NOT the 1890s.
It was the worst famine/disaster in all of Europe in the last 200 years at least in terms of the percentage of population dead (not emigrated….. DEAD).
The Irish people, at the time, lived in “huts”.
The Irish people were under colonial rule at the time and the food produced by them was exported in an exploitive exercise while the indigents starved to death.
What is your point?
Do you, really, NOT see the similarities?
Comment by Tim
50.
July 17, 2008
6:09 am
Bravo to Kevin Myers from America. And while I’m at it, a word about the Ireland of today. How disgraceful that Ireland, the land of Wilde, Beckett and Joyce, would enact laws to stifle the open and honest discussion of issues. It appears that Soviet style censorship has taken root in the Old Sod.
It had been many years since my last visit and I was shocked and dismayed to see how much Ireland has changed in that time. One cannot help notice the sheer numbers of dark skinned Africans running loose in nearly every city and village. The sight of their mosques in nearly every city was enough to bring tears my eyes. The newspapers are filled with stories of Africans committing rape and all sorts of mayhem and giving native Irish a taste of what we here in America have known all along, that the African is incompatible with a modern society. I have had many a heated argument in pubs over the years with Irishmen who were only too eager espouse a holier than thou attitude regarding the state of race relations in America. And this coming from Irishmen who had never seen a black except in the movies or on TV. Now that they have invaded Ireland, I will wager some of those attitudes have changed.
How sad is to see the large number of Irish women being impregnated by Africans and having mixed race, mulatto babies who will grow up and wreak havoc upon Irish society in years to come.
Comment by Hotrin
51.
July 17, 2008
10:25 am
Hotrin - all I can do is point you in the direction of people like Danielle and others. If your view of black people is that low, I don’t think there is much I can say to you other than God bless you. I wish you well and hope that one day your prejudice ends.
Comment by Bryan
52.
July 17, 2008
11:12 am
I could barely express the anger, shock, upset and disgust that I felt after reading Myers article. However, then I read the comment above by Hotrin and am truly lost for words.
All I can say is Bryan, I am one Irish citizen who supports you 100%. Sláinte agus saol agat
PS I knew there was a reason I always both the Times over the Independent!
Comment by Clio
53.
July 17, 2008
11:13 am
Thanks, Bryan, for offering a reasonable and dignified counterpoint to what can only be described as Kevin Myers’ controversy-seeking, disgusting “column.” I too commend the ICI for taking legal action and wish them well. I also think that a formal complaint needs to be made to the editor of The Independent, for what surely cannot be acceptable journalism in a national newspaper.
Comment by Karen
54.
July 17, 2008
12:06 pm
Like Clio I read Kevin Myers article with anger, hurt, dismay, disgust, disappointment though probably not surprise given his ‘form’. Then I read Hotrin’s contribution above and I am at a loss for words. I am one of those “Irish women being impregnated by Africans and having mixed race, mulatto babies who will grow up and wreak havoc upon Irish society in years to come”. How dare s/he?
I presume Mr Obama’s achievements, to name but one example, sit a little uncomfortably with Hotrin’s assertion “that the African is incompatible with a modern society.”
May I be so bold as to suggest that opinions such as those expressed by Hotrin and Mr Myers are in fact those that are “incompatible with a modern society.”
Comment by DM
55.
July 17, 2008
3:14 pm
As one who emigrated from Ireland some years ago to America, I have to say that much of what Hotrin says, is spot on. Yes it is undeniable, many Irish women today have lost their way and are shamefully having babies with blacks. This is a sacrilege in my opinion and something that I will never accept.
Unfettered immigration from the Third World into a country as small as Ireland is a recipe for disaster and now that it seems that the Celtic Tiger is seeing the start of a period of economic downturn, things will go downhill fast as the illegal immigrants will turn to crime and the dole for support. We are seeing the same in America, but Ireland has neither the resources or the infrastructure to support this for long.
One other thing. I, too am ashamed of all of the ghastly mosques that are popping up like cancers throughout our once proud homeland. This is simply unacceptable.
Comment by McManus
56.
July 17, 2008
6:03 pm
The Irish, for the most part, have a peculiar and curious affinity for Africa and the Africans. One need only hear the hysterical rantings of the loathsome singer Bono, who refuses to pay taxes and buys luxury homes, and then seeks to tell the rest of us to pour countless billions into the cesspool of Africa, while he seeks to win a Nobel Prize for his hypocrisy.
Ireland has lost one of it’s most basic freedoms, the freedom of speech, but has gained countless Nigerians and an assortment of other African immigrants. Not to mention having a Marxist-like regime, seeing to it that all whites are severly punished when they dare to speak the truth. This is the price Ireland has paid for taking the EU money. They are forced to accept huge amounts of immigrants who do little to contribute to society. Modern day Europe is a frightening Orwellian nightmare.
Comment by D. Gallagher
57.
July 17, 2008
10:42 pm
Clio, Karen, DM - Thank you.
McManus & D. Gallagher - I suppose it wouldn’t do any good if I told you that less than 10% of the immigrant population is African. If you add Asians, the proportion is still less than 25%. Of the total population, immigrants are thought to make up 10 - 12%. But I like I said, I have a feeling insignificant statistics are not going to change your mind.
At the end of the day, we are just people trying to make a better life for ourselves and our families.
Comment by Bryan
58.
July 18, 2008
6:59 am
So many of you Irish are naive. Your naivete is the result of living on an island devoid - at least until recently - of blacks. We Americans know a thing or two about living with blacks. While some are very bright and well mannered, far too many are a drain on society, or worse, downright dangerous. Culturally and genetically, they simply cannot successfully co-exist in an advanced, civilized Western society. The amount of black on white crime in the U.S. is an epidemic which the liberal media refuses to acknowledge. Jesse Jackson once said when he walks down the street and hears footsteps behind him, he is relieved to discover that a white youth and not a black youth is following him. The truth hurts. But that makes it no less true. Whether Detroit, Los Angeles, London, Paris, Cape Town or, yes, Dublin, most of them are the same. My guess is that years from now after you Irish have more experience with the blacks, you will reach the same conclusion.
Comment by paul
59.
July 18, 2008
4:27 pm
To those who have posted messages of hate or prejudice on this forum, why not consider for a moment, on Nelson Mandela’s 90th birthday, the story, as reported in a BBC News article today, of how he reduced a veteran white police officer to tears on his inauguration day when he walked over to him, shook his hand and told him “today you have become our police”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7513047.stm
Great men and women try to convince others of their greatness, while small minded people try to convince others of how small they are.
Comment by Rory Sturdy
60.
July 18, 2008
6:40 pm
to continue publishing atricles such as this one will only go to encourage the bigoted and ignorant opinions of people hiding behind their broadsheets, masquerading as knowledgable.
Comment by jean
61.
July 18, 2008
9:23 pm
Jean & Rory - Absolutely.
Paul - Please tell me more about what I and everyone else of my colour is like. And are all white people the same?
Paul…seriously?
Comment by Bryan
62.
July 21, 2008
2:06 pm
I think if we take from Kevin’s provocative piece the thought that conventional Western aid for Africa is not working, then he has done us a favour, and Africans too, though his language won’t endear him to them.
Comment by Kieran
63.
July 23, 2008
2:20 pm
If you wish to make an official complaint about the recently published piece by Kevin Myers, You can complain on line to the Press Ombudsman’s Office at:
http://www.pressombudsman.ie/v2/pressombudsman/portal.php?content=_includes/howtocomplain.php
You should reference principle 8 of the Press Council Code of conduct when you are making the complaint. Please note, there appears to be a problem with the online form so the email option might be a better one to go for.
Comment by Rory Sturdy
64.
July 23, 2008
2:59 pm
Bryan, I wanted to post this blog to voice my complete & absolute disgust at KM’s article in the Irish Independent. Even though my comment comes late, I am still boiling mad at the blatant revolting racist rantings of that silly man from July 10th and hope that perhaps the gods will smile down upon those in this country who detest his evil rantings & give him a large dose of one of the diseases he refers to in his ‘article’ - preferably one that is incurable. Should this sadly not happen, perhaps Hotrin and all the other ‘brave’ racist loonies could contact the Irish Independent and offer their warped, out-dated, bigoted ramblings as holiday-cover for Mr Myers, as surely he is due a holiday soon - preferably to somewhere where he could contract said diseases above.
Good Luck Bryan, in all you do & as someone has previously said, try to keep the chin up and fight the good fight.
Comment by Ciara OSB
65.
July 23, 2008
3:12 pm
Kieran - As an African, I’m not feeling like I had a favour done for me. A call to debate, a challenge on how aid is handled, a debate on public health in sub-Saharan Africa… these things would be a favour. That article…it was just offensive.
Rory - Thanks for the link
Ciara - Thank you. For every one Hotrin, there are lots of people like you, which is really encouraging.
Comment by Bryan
66.
August 18, 2008
5:32 pm
Bryan, what I know about Africa, I could fit on not much more than a postcard, and it’s not a huge area of interest to me unfortunately, but intercultural peace is, and your article was fantastic and I’m so glad to have a commentator like you to represent Africa and African opinions, if one can even say such a sentence about such a diverse continent. Your writing is of an excellent standard and I wish you all the best in Ireland, having someone to put words to some of the common images about Africa we get and hear you speak for yourselves in an eloquent way that gets attention and respect is powerfully valuable and I hope we see more like you about. All the best, A.
Comment by Anna
67.
August 18, 2008
7:46 pm
Thank you Anna. Those are very kind and encouraging words.
Comment by Bryan
68.
January 20, 2009
11:54 am
Completely agree with Hotrin and McManus. Most Irish people I’ve discussed this with say the same thing.
Comment by Jackie
69.
January 20, 2009
12:08 pm
Jackie, I guess we run in different circles because most Irish people that I’ve spoken to completely disagree and, for the most part, are ashamed of the kinds of sentiments expressed by Hotrin and McManus.
So here’s the million dollar question: are there more Irish people like the ones you know, or the ones I know, living in Ireland today?
Comment by Bryan
70.
March 5, 2009
2:22 pm
Well Bryan
I think we do run in different circles. Considering I don’t know you, I doubt I know anyone you know!
Comment by Jackie
71.
March 5, 2009
11:40 pm
Fair enough Jackie.
Comment by Bryan
72.
March 13, 2009
2:06 am
This is my first experience of Irish blogs and it will be my last - god help you all if your intellectual discussion is as backward as this.
Comment by Embarassment
73.
March 13, 2009
2:12 am
You might want to check some more recent posts on this blog, some of the other blogs on the Irish Times site, and other Irish blogs, before writing us all off.
Comment by Bryan
74.
March 25, 2009
1:54 pm
Hi,
I originally read this and commented on it but found your blog by accident and searched out of curiosity.
Since I’d already read Myers’s article, I was hardly going to be horrified by it (though still rather disgusted - he is capable of better) but some of the comments bowled me over. The racism of some of my compatriots is truly appalling and nasty. Not something you need on your blog, though it is a clarion call to us Irish, thinking we are so Oppressed and Special, when in truth we are small-minded little huckstering bigots, still fumbling behind that greasy till. Thank you for not deleting those little instalments of bile (I would perfectly understand it if you did) so we can see our true image. “Outside In” is right!
Again, all I can do is apologise for those people’s ignorance. That you even engage them is more than they deserve
Comment by ideealisme
75.
March 25, 2009
1:57 pm
I commented here and the internet ate it. Short version: appalled by the ignorant, bigoted racism in some of the comments and ashamed to be Irish. But I’ve been ashamed of that for a long time.
Thank you for letting these instalments of bile stay - deleting them would be perfectly understandable - and patiently showing us how much we are still hucksters fumbling in our greasy till, rather than the Oppressed and Special people we think we are.
Sorry you have to deal with that. It is truly disgusting.
Comment by ideealisme
76.
March 26, 2009
12:31 pm
Thanks Ideealisme. There’s no need to apologise though. Every country has an interesting cross-section of people and opinion. I just happened to have attracted some of the less savoury ones. But you need to engage with them. I have no problems with people who have views that sicken me but are open to debate them and engage with the issue verbally. I worry much more about those who aren’t willing to open themselves up for scrutiny and chose instead to act out their position.
Besides, I pretty sure that there are a lot more people like you in Ireland than there are crazies. Hopefully, the recession won’t shift that equilibrium too far.
Comment by Bryan

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