Comments on: The Hijab http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/ Just another irishtimes.com weblog Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:34:00 +0000 By: Mujaahid http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-1149 Mujaahid Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:53:35 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-1149 The problem with people like David is they want to use the actions of a few nutters as a rod to beat the backs of all Muslims. It was wrong when the British unfairly singled out ordinary Irish people for 'special attention', it was wrong of the media to tar all Irish people with the same brush and it's equally wrong to do the same to Muslims now. There were no calls for every Irish person to throw themselves prostrate in front of the world whenever there was an IRA bombing, why would anyone expect more from Muslims? What we have here is a very clear prejudice, disguised as concern. The problem with people like David is they want to use the actions of a few nutters as a rod to beat the backs of all Muslims. It was wrong when the British unfairly singled out ordinary Irish people for ’special attention’, it was wrong of the media to tar all Irish people with the same brush and it’s equally wrong to do the same to Muslims now. There were no calls for every Irish person to throw themselves prostrate in front of the world whenever there was an IRA bombing, why would anyone expect more from Muslims? What we have here is a very clear prejudice, disguised as concern.

]]> By: Bryan http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-401 Bryan Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:37:29 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-401 Respectfully David, that's absurd. YEs there have been terrorist attacks initiated by radicals in the name of religion, but those people are explicitly labelled RADICALS. They don't represent the stance of your average Muslim. And in fairness, a lot of Imans have gone out of their way to denounce radicalism. Propagating this anti Islam sentiment will only worsen things. The power the radicals have is in tying religion to oppression and discrimination. The best way to combat it is to challenge those ideas and act in an unoppressive way. The Civil Rights movement defeated segregation by challenging the idea of black people as some alien 'other'. You might want to check out 'Three cups of tea' here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141034262/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE Respectfully David, that’s absurd. YEs there have been terrorist attacks initiated by radicals in the name of religion, but those people are explicitly labelled RADICALS. They don’t represent the stance of your average Muslim. And in fairness, a lot of Imans have gone out of their way to denounce radicalism. Propagating this anti Islam sentiment will only worsen things.

The power the radicals have is in tying religion to oppression and discrimination. The best way to combat it is to challenge those ideas and act in an unoppressive way. The Civil Rights movement defeated segregation by challenging the idea of black people as some alien ‘other’.

You might want to check out ‘Three cups of tea’ here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141034262/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

]]> By: David http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-400 David Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:26:31 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-400 Its not so much a case of suddenly becoming anti this or anti that, the facts speak for themselves, 9/11, London, Casablanca, Bali, the murder of Theo Van Gogh, the riots in Oldham, all of which were initiated by Muslims, like it or lump it, their own community seems not to care that these extremists do this in their name, however they are quick to take offence as the riots over the Danish cartoons or what the pope said, or even the name of a teddy bear prove, people here are not being bigoted, but are making a rational decision based on what they see, they don't see Muslims out protesting against Al Qaeda. What makes matters worst is any kind of debate on the subject quickly gets dressed up as Islamophobia, witness the Dispatches programme on Channel 4 last year "Undercover Mosque" in which undercover film crews recorded sermons on such noble topics as the stoning of homosexuals, the beating of women, and the necessity of carrying out Jihad. Later we learn the police in England were looking to charge Channel 4 with incitement to hatred. While I accept the majority are law abiding we do not do anybody favours by ignoring the problem. Its not so much a case of suddenly becoming anti this or anti that, the facts speak for themselves, 9/11, London, Casablanca, Bali, the murder of Theo Van Gogh, the riots in Oldham, all of which were initiated by Muslims, like it or lump it, their own community seems not to care that these extremists do this in their name, however they are quick to take offence as the riots over the Danish cartoons or what the pope said, or even the name of a teddy bear prove, people here are not being bigoted, but are making a rational decision based on what they see, they don’t see Muslims out protesting against Al Qaeda. What makes matters worst is any kind of debate on the subject quickly gets dressed up as Islamophobia, witness the Dispatches programme on Channel 4 last year “Undercover Mosque” in which undercover film crews recorded sermons on such noble topics as the stoning of homosexuals, the beating of women, and the necessity of carrying out Jihad. Later we learn the police in England were looking to charge Channel 4 with incitement to hatred. While I accept the majority are law abiding we do not do anybody favours by ignoring the problem.

]]> By: Bryan http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-399 Bryan Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:30:41 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-399 Preempt future problems? Something about this 'Islam is coming to get us' conspiracy theory disturbs me. I've known plenty of Muslims who are decent people and some are really good friends. The most extemist thing done by a Muslim that I know was a root canal or tooth extraction, but she's a dentist - she couldn't help it. Honestly, I think being anti - female, Jewish or Black is not fashionable any more. Since we seem to need to fear someone, it is Muslims who are being wrongly targetted. Preempt future problems? Something about this ‘Islam is coming to get us’ conspiracy theory disturbs me. I’ve known plenty of Muslims who are decent people and some are really good friends. The most extemist thing done by a Muslim that I know was a root canal or tooth extraction, but she’s a dentist - she couldn’t help it.

Honestly, I think being anti - female, Jewish or Black is not fashionable any more. Since we seem to need to fear someone, it is Muslims who are being wrongly targetted.

]]> By: David http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-395 David Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:01:22 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-395 The idea of Europe or more probable, parts of it becoming an Islamic colony is not as implauusible as you suggest, bear in mind the Moors in Spain and the Turks in the Balkens and Hungary, only this time it is demographics. As intelligent beings we should be able to preempt future problems and deal with them now, we are lucky in Ireland we have the example of other countries and from what we can see many of us would be nervous on this issue. The idea of Europe or more probable, parts of it becoming an Islamic colony is not as implauusible as you suggest, bear in mind the Moors in Spain and the Turks in the Balkens and Hungary, only this time it is demographics. As intelligent beings we should be able to preempt future problems and deal with them now, we are lucky in Ireland we have the example of other countries and from what we can see many of us would be nervous on this issue.

]]> By: Bryan http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-387 Bryan Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:15:36 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-387 David, I didn't realise that it needed addressing. Rhodesia later became Zimbabwe, my country. What happened to my country was colonialism proper, and yet I still have my identity. I'm still a Zimbabwean Shona. The idea of Europe becoming an Islamic colony is... it's not plausible. It isn't going to happen. There may be some tensions in the future, but that is something we are all going to have to overcome. In the same way that people from the global north have had the luxury to migrate to the south in the past, the reverse is inevitable. From my experience, that can have positive consequences for everyone. David, I didn’t realise that it needed addressing. Rhodesia later became Zimbabwe, my country. What happened to my country was colonialism proper, and yet I still have my identity. I’m still a Zimbabwean Shona. The idea of Europe becoming an Islamic colony is… it’s not plausible. It isn’t going to happen.
There may be some tensions in the future, but that is something we are all going to have to overcome. In the same way that people from the global north have had the luxury to migrate to the south in the past, the reverse is inevitable. From my experience, that can have positive consequences for everyone.

]]> By: David http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-386 David Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:03:56 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-386 Bryan -I am disappointed that you have not chosen to response to the points raised by Big Bill, which I feel encapsulate what many people who are nervous or indeed fearful about immigration especially Islamic migration in view of the changes those same migrants have made in other parts of Europe and the alienation caused to native people. While I accept the majority of them are peaceful they have unfortunately by remaining quiet or appearing overly sensitive ,allowed their religion to be defined in the eyes of many people, by manics and extremists. Bryan -I am disappointed that you have not chosen to response to the points raised by Big Bill, which I feel encapsulate what many people who are nervous or indeed fearful about immigration especially Islamic migration in view of the changes those same migrants have made in other parts of Europe and the alienation caused to native people. While I accept the majority of them are peaceful they have unfortunately by remaining quiet or appearing overly sensitive ,allowed their religion to be defined in the eyes of many people, by manics and extremists.

]]> By: Bryan http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-369 Bryan Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:46:36 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-369 Aaliayh - I am sorry for trivialising the hijab. I'm also a person of faith and my faith is really important to me. It must be a difficult time for Muslims. Hopefully we can in time all learn a bit more about each other hopefully that will sort out the suspicions Aaliayh - I am sorry for trivialising the hijab. I’m also a person of faith and my faith is really important to me. It must be a difficult time for Muslims. Hopefully we can in time all learn a bit more about each other hopefully that will sort out the suspicions

]]> By: Aaliayh Ali http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-365 Aaliayh Ali Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:12:39 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-365 I am a Muslim and i do wear the hijab i think this shouldn't be a big issue Plus the hijab isn't just a cloth of us Muslim girls wear it has more meaning to that Plus us Muslim girls aren't forced to wear the hijab Muslim girls shouldn't be going underground for being scared of wearing the Hijab i wore the hijab when i was four and I am still proud of it and won't go underground if there are threats i would fight back Mostly people view us Muslim as terrorists bombers all those horrible things and i think that is not right like the Americans who think of us Muslims like that since September 11 I am a Muslim and i do wear the hijab
i think this shouldn’t be a big issue
Plus the hijab isn’t just a cloth of us Muslim girls
wear it has more meaning to that
Plus us Muslim girls aren’t forced to wear the hijab
Muslim girls shouldn’t be going underground for being scared of wearing the Hijab

i wore the hijab when i was four and I am still proud of it and won’t go underground if there are threats i would fight back

Mostly people view us Muslim as terrorists bombers all those horrible things and i think that is not right like the Americans who think of us Muslims like that
since September 11

]]> By: Ruaidhri http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-246 Ruaidhri Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:24:40 +0000 http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2008/07/03/the-hijab/#comment-246 I do not think that this should be viewed as just as an argument/ discussion of the hijab. State schools should be religion free, that way inconsequential, faith based but non mandatory items ie: Crosses/ charms, Kippot (Yarmulke) & Hijabs. Would be outlawed. Religion should not be taught in our schools. Schools are for learning of facts, No can say thar jesus christ (Rabbi Yeshua Ben Yussef), was the son of god, a cult leader or a Politically motivated Rabbi who taught of good times from the book of ruth. Take the religion out of schools, if a child is to wear a hijab, a kippot or even a cross they must do it off state grounds or in a faith vbased school. I do not think that this should be viewed as just as an argument/ discussion of the hijab. State schools should be religion free, that way inconsequential, faith based but non mandatory items ie: Crosses/ charms, Kippot (Yarmulke) & Hijabs. Would be outlawed. Religion should not be taught in our schools. Schools are for learning of facts, No can say thar jesus christ (Rabbi Yeshua Ben Yussef), was the son of god, a cult leader or a Politically motivated Rabbi who taught of good times from the book of ruth. Take the religion out of schools, if a child is to wear a hijab, a kippot or even a cross they must do it off state grounds or in a faith vbased school.

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