• RSS
  • Text Size:
  • -
  • irishtimes.com - Posted: September 1, 2010 @ 9:55 am

    Guest post – Alison Curtis – women on the wireless

    Jim Carroll

    Alison Curtis is a DJ on Today FM who currently does the 5-7am early breakfast show on the station from Monday to Friday and also presents The Last Splash every Sunday (8-10pm). As one of the very few female voices on the national airwaves during the week, Alison is in a much better position than any pundit or punter to discuss the issue of women on the wireless. Her guest post is after the jump.

    For some reason in the past few weeks, there have been more and more articles written for various publications about the lack of women on Irish radio. The situation isn’t new, but the fact that so many people are writing about it is.

    This issue has become topical for a few reasons, but mainly due to new radio schedules being announced, with the two focal points being Newstalk and 2FM. As Claire Byrne finishes the Breakfast show on Newstalk, no women will be present as hosts on either station between 7am and 7pm, the hours which are considered to be the hours that matter in radio. RTE Radio 1 has of course Aine Lawlor and Mary Wilson book-ending those important hours and the station I work for, Today FM, has only me as the sole female host of their own show across the entire schedule and I slip in just before it “counts.”

    As a woman who began her radio career in the summer of 1999 and has had my own program on Today FM since May 2003, I have given this a lot of thought over the years. I have also given it a lot of thought looking at it from a producer’s point of view as I produced the Ian Dempsey Breakfast Show for six years. And after examining the recent articles published on the issue such as Nadine O’Regan’s piece in the Sunday Business Post, RTE’s radio boss Claire Duignan’s letter to The Irish Times and most recently Gabrielle Monaghan’s lengthy article in the Sunday Times this past weekend, you realise that the same points keep getting raised time and time again, but not answered. So as someone who is “living” the situation, I’d like to offer my own spin on things.

    When faced with the question of why there aren’t very many female presenters on their stations, managing directors, CEOs and program directors always offer up one of two explainations. One is a refute and that in fact there are loads of women represented on their digitial stations, weekend schedules, newsrooms and research staff. So perhaps it is the person asking the question that isn’t doing their job, what we should be asking is why are very few/none of all big time slots occupied by women? Then we might start getting a clearer picture of why the situation is as it is and why in 2010 it is actually bleaker for women trying to break through into those illustrious time slots on national or semi-national radio stations than it was in 2006 or even 2008.

    The second answer commonly given by the powers that be is actually more a question; where are the women? And they offer up the ‘fact’ that most people coming to them for jobs are men. So in response to this I can assure you that we are here. Some of us don’t want jobs as producers, researchers or co-hosts. We would like the opportunity to front our own shows and to present our own opinions in our own styles based on our own life experiences like our male colleagues – after all, we can’t ignore the fact that Ireland’s population is half and half.

    Unfortunately when you approach the situation with an overtly feminist agenda, armed with the sweeping statement just outlined, you annoy people and get nowhere. I even start to annoy myself when I make this issue into a burning feminist one, I really don’t want to be in the position of being a nag. No-one does.

    In Monaghan’s Sunday Times article, Willie O’Reilly, Today FM’s CEO and my own boss (who I like and whose advice I rely on), said that the issue of men versus women on radio is not peculiar to any one station or to Ireland. Half of that statement is true, but the second half isn’t. The lack of women hosting their own shows is peculiar to Ireland and throughout the years I have struggled to answer this, but have not been able to (without becoming a nag).

    As a Canadian and being familiar with syndicated and local radio stations in Ontario, I can safely say the situation isn’t the same there. Breakfast shows do still tend to be dominated by men with a female co-host usually present. But at one stage the two biggest stations in Toronto, Mix 99 (now Virgin Radio) and 102.1 The Edge, both had women presenting shows back to back from 10am until 7pm. At present, Virgin has one female and one male host holding down the breakfast show slot, followed by Maura, a lady, from 9 until noon and they seem to be staying a float. The Edge has had Joise Dye present a four hour show from 10am for the past six years and they have three female weekend presenters and a night time female jock too.

    If we turn our attentions to the UK, there is definitely no shortage of women who have managed to secure and hold on to very successful shows on BBC Radio 1 and 2 during the money-making/high risk hours of 7am to 7pm. Fearne Cotton, Jo Whiley, Edith Bowman and Annie Mac are all managing to make it work.

    Another issue which surfaces all the time when talking about men vs women on the airwaves is that research was apparently done in the years gone by saying that both men and women prefer male voices. Trust me, I have looked for this research and it’s a bit like proving unicorns once existed.

    However, there has been lots of linguistical research done on other aspects of men and women’s speech, some of which I studied in university. The majority of those anthropolgical studies did find that it is tone and pitch in a voice that people prefer, rather than a black and white gender bias. I myself work hard to keep my voice even lower while I am on air, as I find high pitched voices hard to digest (at any time of day.)

    The physiological reality is that women do tend to have higher octaves than men, but at the same time, you can’t voice (excuse the pun) a bias saying that most people prefer male voices, as not all female voices sound the same. Simply put, there are female voices that are more appealing than others, just as some men are more famous for the attractiveness of their voices over others. So I hope one and for all that this elusive research argument gets flushed.

    I think we also need to look at development and start at the very beginning. Instead of just taking a snap shot of September 2010 and the radio landscape, stations need to be looking forward and developing a more balanced collection of presenters. It is at this level that it will be possible for radio schedules to be more diverse and representative of Ireland’s population in the future. In this instance, I do think station bosses and program directors need to spend a bit more time looking at possible female talent then perhaps they are doing at the moment.

    I love my job, I love it a lot. I look forward to each show, I sincerely enjoy planning each show and spend a lot of time doing so. It is how I like to spend my time. And I consider myself very privileged to be doing it, even when two alarms go off at 4am every monring. But I would be lying if I said that I didn’t find it frustrating at times to feel that after ten years on air I have possibly missed out on opportunities based on my gender and not my abilites. And for once as a woman whose favourite word is “sorry”, I won’t say sorry for saying this. Onwards and upwards gals!

  • 26 Comments

    1.
    September 1, 2010
    10:06 am

    “And for once as a woman whose favourite word is “sorry”, I won’t say sorry for saying this. Onwards and upwards gals! ”

    And why should you have to. The air waves should reflect, at least to some extent, the range and diversity of people on the island it this stage they blatantly and clearly don’t.

    krossie

    Comment by krossie
    2.
    September 1, 2010
    10:11 am

    Excellent post. I’d play devil’s advocate with one aspect, however

    Alison says

    I do think station bosses and program directors need to spend a bit more time looking at possible female talent then perhaps they are doing at the moment.

    which is something we can all agree on (I’d assume?). But how do you promote this without straying into ‘positive’ discrimination territory? Because she then says

    But I would be lying if I said that I didn’t find it frustrating at times to feel that after ten years on air I have possibly missed out on opportunities based on my gender and not my abilites.

    which, after all could happen the other way around if we do go down that road. The fact is that there is an imbalance that has to be addressed, but personally I wouldn’t be happy to see that come through forced quotas or ‘positive’ discrimination.

    For what it’s worth I think regardless of gender, younger radio talent finds it hard to emerge because of a perception amongst the powers that be that their established presenters are more important than they really are.

    Comment by Joe
    3.
    September 1, 2010
    10:22 am

    Great post.

    Comment by Una Mullally
    4.
    September 1, 2010
    10:22 am

    Good article Alison.

    If I read the article correctly, you are arguing that:

    - it’s not true that there are no (or too few) female presenters to choose from
    - it’s not true that it’s the same everywhere else
    - it’s not true that listeners prefer male voices

    That helps to distil some of the red herrings (a native species in Ireland) from the discussion. So what do you think is the reason for so few women presenting their own radio shows during peak hours – is it that studio bosses aren’t looking hard enough for the female talent that’s already there or is it something else?

    Comment by Mumblin' Deaf Ro
    5.
    September 1, 2010
    10:31 am

    Alison, I’ve always found your voice to be very easy to listen, and you’re a credit to female jocks in Ireland and everywhere else.

    It’s been clear to me for some time that there are not enough women on radio in Ireland, and it’s about time that the media started talking about it, it’s the first step in addressing the issue.

    You say that the women “are here” and want to work in radio, just not perhaps as producers, researchers etc. How else do they expect to get the foot in the door? No one (men included) can walk in the door and start hosting their own show. Hopefully people like yourself, and other fine female radioers, can inspire more women to start applying for these jobs that they apparently aren’t applying for.

    Feminist issues aside, more diversity is needed on radio, not just on the male/female ratio. The question I have is if the radio heads are saying that no women are applying, why aren’t they? Get to it, women, get yourselves on the radio.

    Comment by Rónán Mistéil
    6.
    September 1, 2010
    10:55 am

    The tides are turning all over the place now. Jobs can’t be found unless you’ve had:
    (a) Three years previous work experience in that area,
    (b) A large stack of masters
    or
    (c) Spent that year you wanted to go traveling doing your doctorate.

    Jobs are nowhere at the minute, so either join the queue or slog it out. If you’re the innovative type knuckle down. We’re all proud of you (where can I drop my C.V.?) Gone are the days when you were 15 and hadn’t a clue what a stock system was or the only reason the local painter was paying you to hold the paintbrushes was so you’d stay out of your mother’s way.

    However in radio, now is the time for win-win.

    It’s always a strange feeling when points like this are brought to the boil. Why haven’t we picked up on this earlier? I find it a bit mad to think that with all the women in the background of radio (research, production etc) that execs aren’t really sitting down with their production staff and trying to establish that ‘hook’ with the audience.

    When you think about it, every radio station bases its slots according to its research around demographics. That’s EVERY radio station! It’s very hard to find a show nowadays that really has that edge especially when you can just log onto your browser and pick up any of thousands of ‘listening posts’ from around the world.

    Women hoping to enter radio broadcasting at this point shouldn’t feel discouraged now that the spotlight is fired up. On the contrary, march in and demand a job (you never know)! Execs and station managers need new ideas all the time and MY GOD if there was ever a time to try something new it’s right now!

    I believe female station staff perform a very active role in the process. If we didn”t have both sides of the story we’d just be tabloids with mouths. Any female presenters I have ever met have received fantastic listenership during their time in the booth.

    Maybe we’ll all look across the pond to the U.K. and see how BBC Radio do it, decide we’ve all been a bit silly, laugh it off and copy them. After all, our justice system really is a sort of supermarket queue with the U.K. anyways. We’re all just waiting for the Digital Economy Act to appear over here with ‘U.K.’ crossed out.

    Women of Ireland!

    (a) Find a community/regional/national station
    (b) Work out how your slot/research can appeal to their demographic.
    (c) Apply for a job/ internship/ experience.

    If you got it, well done!

    If not, wash, rinse and repeat (with extra gusto).

    Comment by Aaron Casey
    7.
    September 1, 2010
    10:58 am

    I’m coming late to this debate but I’m wondering if anyone has mentioned that it’s not just radio where gender is a massive issue. The entire music industry suffers from a male bias. From musicians themselves, through journalists, djs and music fans there is a overtly male bias.

    As Jim knows, I recently completed a thesis on the future of music journalism in Ireland and, though it wasn’t the focus of the thesis, during my reserach I did look at the role of gender in music. Unfortunately, it was far too important and vast an area of reserach I couldn’t cover it fairly in one or two paragaphs so I decided to leave it to someone else to reserach.

    Anyway, in my reading I came across a book called ‘The Shape of Things to Come’ by Greil Marcus which argued that, in the developmental stage at least, popular music was seen as a male pursuit and any women involved had to conform to a male dominated world. It’s an interesting arguement and goes some way to explaining why the industry treats women the way it does, namely, not as equals. In ‘Girls! Girls! Girls!’ Sarah Cooper says that women are often cast in nothing more than an asthetic performance role, ie, they’re given a job based on their looks.

    All of which might explain why we see so many female tv presenters and not very many radio djs. If that is true, then it’s a very sad reflection on the motivations of Irish radio bosses.

    Comment by Steve
    8.
    September 1, 2010
    11:00 am

    “you’re a credit to female jocks in Ireland and everywhere else.”

    Why not just pat her on the head and get it over with?

    “Another issue which surfaces all the time when talking about men vs women on the airwaves is that research was apparently done in the years gone by saying that both men and women prefer male voices”

    This was the entirely reasonable point that Sweet Oblivion was trying to make in the original discussion that Jim et al objected to before it moved on to the ludicrous red herring (in the context of the current discussion) about 2XM

    Comment by Bob
    9.
    September 1, 2010
    11:22 am

    The problem generally I think is a misperception by producers of the differences between radio and TV.
    On TV the public perception is that young female presenters are attractive to general audiences.

    However on radio the general perception is that young female voices lack authority and are perceived as less attractive.

    The mistake RTE and others make is throwing attractive young TV presenters on the radio and not taking into account the fundamental differences in the mediums.

    Marian Finucane’s occasional high pitched whines always put me off. But her voice otherwise is quite low.
    But other female presenters on many of the teamed up gossip programmes on many stations also slip into overexcited squeals and glass breaking antics now and then.

    Maybe all the new young female recruits need to be handed a few crates of Jack Daniels and a container full of Ciggies to get them sorted?

    Comment by dave
    10.
    September 1, 2010
    11:41 am

    “If we turn our attentions to the UK, there is definitely no shortage of women who have managed to secure and hold on to very successful shows on BBC Radio 1 and 2 during the money-making/high risk hours of 7am to 7pm. Fearne Cotton, Jo Whiley, Edith Bowman and Annie Mac are all managing to make it work.”

    i’ve just looked at the Radio1 and Radio2 schedules for the next week, and the above seems a bit exagerated.
    Fearne Cotton, yes, has a weekday show mid-morning show.
    Jo Whiley, has a weekend show, similar to several other female presenters on RTE/2FM (i assume? I know Marian Finucane is on at weekends, i don’t listen to national radio to know who else is on, male or female)
    Edith Bowman, as above, a weekend show.
    Annie Mac – a Friday night (fairly specialist) show at 7pm.

    hardly a huge difference compared to here….

    the above are all Radio1 as far as i can see.
    the daytime weekday listings for Radio2 are overwhelmingly male.
    As far as women go on Radio2, one of 3 co-hosts on a daytime show is female, one female presenter of a Sunday show, and Melanie Sykes as a co-presenter on a Saturday evening show.

    and as for using Toronto as a yardstick, perhaps we could talk about the Dublin stations in that case, seeing as both essentially regional stations?
    I only really listen to Phantom, but Michelle Doherty holds her own very well in a mid-morning/lunchtime slot. There’s also Laura Lee Conboy, Nadine O’Regan, Pearl and Sinead Ni Churnain who fit into the “weekend presenters and a night time female jock” mould that Alison describes, not to mention Charlotte Flood co-hosting the Pure Morning breakfast show.

    pretty comparable to the Toronto schedules that Alison puts forward as proof that we’re somehow behind the times here….

    as for there being an abundance of female would-be presenters, as someone who did some college radio shows, and briefly worked in radio, I very much disagree with Alisons opinion (unless she has some stats to back it up?). i’d say that it was easily 3:1 male:female in people coming in looking for presenting opportunities, and at that easily half of the female recordings that were submitted were news and entertainment gossip pieces, with no music or links.
    but then again, my experiences are just anecdotal, and about as valid as Alison’s vague assurance that women are indeed out there looking for presenting gigs.

    Comment by Ciaran
    11.
    September 1, 2010
    11:52 am

    you’re forgetting 6music and radio 4+3 – female presenters pretty much all day – Lauren Laverne, Nemone. Then there’s Cerys Matthews, Jo Good . And elsewhere Mariella Frustrop, Sara Mohr-Pietsch, Anne McElvoy, Fiona Talkington, Verity Sharp, and tons of others

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/presenters/

    Comment by dave
    12.
    September 1, 2010
    12:20 pm

    Alison Curtis – “Unfortunately when you approach the situation with an overtly feminist agenda, armed with the sweeping statement just outlined, you annoy people and get nowhere. I even start to annoy myself when I make this issue into a burning feminist one, I really don’t want to be in the position of being a nag. No-one does.”

    Personally, I think that these type of issues need to be framed in the context of a general desire for greater equality, across ’sex’ or ‘gender’. There is a discriminatory pretext to this situation (let’s not forget that in Ireland women were obliged to leave the civil service upon becoming married up until 1978) and this problem will not simply resolve itself based on a shift in public attitude, especially when any perceived feminist stance is automatically prone to labels of ‘nagging’, an aspect of the ’silly season’, or ‘political correctness gone mad’ etc.

    When an oxymoron like ‘positive discrimination’ gets thrown into these type of debates it often has the effect of muddying the waters and depriving the discussion of a space to discuss pragmatic solutions or actions to address a very apparent inequality.

    It’s in everyone’s interest not be discriminated against because of who they are. This does not mean that a rigid sex/gender ratio of 1:1 should be enforced upon radio broadcasters in Ireland (where would Shirely Temple Bar fit into that equation?). The fact is that the current ratio is completely out of whack and is therefore having a direct impact upon peoples ability to attain a professional level in their career, based primarily on their anatomy.

    To say that this is a womens issue is also to say that it is a wives issue; a partner’s issue; a sister’s issue; a friend’s issue; a mother’s issue; a colleague’s issue. It permeates throughout all of our lives, regardless of our own sex or gender (or lack thereof).

    If, as Mumblin Deaf Ro attempted to summarise the main issues of this debate:

    - it’s not true that there are no (or too few) female presenters to choose from
    - it’s not true that it’s the same everywhere else
    - it’s not true that listeners prefer male voices

    ….I’d like to hear peoples opinions on how actions can be taken to address this situation. I think that these kind of discussions have gone around in circles for long enough.

    Comment by Owensie
    13.
    September 1, 2010
    12:22 pm

    Radio Ulsters’ Schedule today from 7am – 7pm:

    06:30–09:00 Mark Carruthers and Conor Bradford.
    09:03–10:30 Stephen Nolan
    10:30–12:00 Gerry Anderson
    12:00–13:30 William Crawley
    13:30–15:00 Hugo Duncan
    15:03–17:00 Alan Simpson
    17:00–18:30 Seamus McKee
    18:30–19:00 Marie-Louise Muir

    Virgin France (massive national radio station, used to listen to it at work when I was there), schedule from 7am – 7pm

    5.00-9.00 Bruno Guillon
    9.00-13.00 Phillipe Despont
    13.00-17.00 Greg Di Mano
    17-00-20.00 Camille Combal (who is a male presenter)

    I’d have to agree with Ciaran and say that this is clearly not confined to RTE, today fm et al. Is it even an Irish phenomenon at all?

    Comment by Lutin
    14.
    September 1, 2010
    12:33 pm

    Surprised that there has been no Spare Rib nagging from Sweet Oblivion here yet.

    Comment by Niamh
    15.
    September 1, 2010
    1:20 pm

    I think a lot of it also has to do with what kind of voice women have as broadcasters. Can anyone imagine there being a female broadcaster in Ireland who would bang on about their opinions for 15 minutes at the top of a show ala Gerry Ryan? Women in broadcasting occupy a different space; serious news broadcasters (Mary Wilson, Rachael English), the light-hearted sidekick (Jenny & Mairead on Ray D’Arcy), and occasionally one of expertise when it comes to music (Jenny Huston, Alison Curtis, Michelle Doherty for example) and of course you have the institution of Marian Finucane.

    But in terms of ‘personality’, women don’t really occupy that space in Irish broadcasting. There has never been a female host of the Late Late Show, and it seemed only acceptable that a woman occupy the Saturday night slot during the summer months, and that went to the very smart, talented and established Miriam O’Callaghan. After roadtesting both Brendan O’Connor and Craig Doyle, the former will take up that slot.

    Maybe we’re not delving into what we really want to hear from women in broadcasting. Programmes by Joe Duffy, Tubridy, Mooney, Pat Kenny, etc are all ‘personality’ driven, yet there are few comparable programmes of that nature with women at the helm. Do we just want women to be serious broadcasters or light relief or an expert? Do dominant female personalities make audiences nervous?

    I also think that male broadcasters are inclined to be more confident, and to push themselves more. Maybe they think ‘my opinions are worth airing so I will air them’. I genuinely think female broadcasters are less inclined to think like that. And I think that it’s harder for women to get anywhere if that’s their broadcasting style. [aside: Sarah Cox was great at it.] I think that women often second guess themselves more than men professionally. Maybe that’s why we end up with male personality-based radio programmes from men, and the ones presented by women don’t draw that much from them personally.

    I also think that when women both in broadcasting and journalistm write or broadcast from a personal perspective, or allow their personality into their work, or offer personal opinions, they tend to get slagged off more than their male counterparts who do the same thing.

    Comment by Una Mullally
    16.
    September 1, 2010
    1:42 pm

    “I also think that male broadcasters are inclined to be more confident, and to push themselves more. Maybe they think ‘my opinions are worth airing so I will air them’. I genuinely think female broadcasters are less inclined to think like that. And I think that it’s harder for women to get anywhere if that’s their broadcasting style. ”

    Una, I think that’s totally true and for me it’s perhaps the biggest reason why there aren’t more women on the airwaves. But if the head of Today FM had made that comment (the one I quoted), surely they would be labelled sexist?

    Comment by Lutin
    17.
    September 1, 2010
    2:12 pm

    “Surprised that there has been no Spare Rib nagging from Sweet Oblivion here yet.”

    Jesus fucking Christ

    Comment by Bob
    18.
    September 1, 2010
    3:33 pm

    Following on from Una’s comment, Clay Shirky was on ‘On The Media’ talking about the dearth of women in media.

    Lifting a few quotes at random:

    “Not enough women have what it takes to behave like arrogant, self-aggrandizing jerks.”

    “they aren’t just bad at behaving like arrogant self-aggrandizing jerks. They are bad at behaving like self-promoting narcissists, anti-social obsessives, or pompous blowhards, even a little bit, even temporarily, even when it would be in their best interests to do so.”

    http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2010/04/16/05

    http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2010/01/a-rant-about-women/

    I don’t know if I agree with all of it but it’s an interesting angle.

    Comment by Thomas
    19.
    September 1, 2010
    3:55 pm

    Niamh @ 14 – given your IP address, you obviously have other reasons for that stupid comment. Always prefer if people are open and above board about why they’re attacking someone here. The floor is yours….

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    20.
    September 1, 2010
    4:12 pm

    A genuinely great post. Well said Alison! With a few notable exceptions our airwaves are depressingly pedestrian. Perhaps this might not be the case if the gender bias was dispensed with. Certainly more articulate and passionate radio enthusiasts like Alison could not hurt matters.

    Comment by John Hennessy
    21.
    September 1, 2010
    4:18 pm

    “Some of us don’t want jobs as producers, researchers or co-hosts. We would like the opportunity to front our own shows and to present our own opinions in our own styles based on our own life experiences like our male colleagues – after all, we can’t ignore the fact that Ireland’s population is half and half.”

    I think that’s a fair thing to stand up and say, I don’t think it’s overtly feminist, I don’t think it’s a sweeping statement, I don’t think it’s turning the question into a burning feminist issue and I don’t think it makes you sound like a nag.

    I think following what I found to be a reasonable statement about a desire for equity with such a caveat is a perfect example of women having less confidence than men when airing their opinions as suggested by Una in an earlier comment.

    If I sound like a nag saying that, maybe it’s because I’m a feminist.

    Comment by Sarah
    22.
    September 1, 2010
    4:24 pm

    Niamh..Don’t take the bait!

    Comment by provocateur
    23.
    September 1, 2010
    5:13 pm

    @Lutin: I don’t think it’s a sexist comment. It’s drawn from my own experiences, those of
    others and general observations.

    Comment by Una Mullally
    24.
    September 2, 2010
    1:20 am

    I want to distinguish myself from Niamh’s @ 14 comment. Odd and all as this sounds but I would not mock anyone for being vegetarian as I am one myself. It is also a very crude and public attack on a sideline project of Sweet Oblivion’s on a public forum. Cop on.

    Jim I reckon you should out whoever’s location that wrote @14 if you know their IP address.

    Comment by Niamh O' Donoghue
    25.
    September 2, 2010
    9:55 am

    Niamh O’ Donoghue – happy to make that distinction between you and the other “Niamh”.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    26.
    September 2, 2010
    10:18 am

    @24 Amen

    Comment by stephen Grainger

    Comments on this article are now closed.


Search On The Record