It’s the one you have been waiting for – the Choice Music Prize shortlist
Jim Carroll
Here are the 10 albums which have made the Choice Music Prize shortlist for Irish Album of the Year 2009 (list in alphabetical order:
And So I Watch You From Afar “And So I Watch You From Afar” (Smalltown America)
Bell X1 “Blue Lights On The Runway” (BellyUp)
Codes “Trees Dream in Algebra” (EMI)
Adrian Crowley “Season of the Sparks” (Chemikal Underground)
Dark Room Notes “We Love You Dark Matter” (Gonzo)
The Duckworth Lewis Method “The Duckworth Lewis Method” (1969/Divine Comedy Records)
Julie Feeney “Pages” (Mittens)
Valerie Francis “Slow Dynamo” (VF)
Laura Izibor “Let The Truth Be Told” (Atlantic)
The Swell Season “Strict Joy” (Plateau)
The live event will take place in Vicar Street, Dublin on Wednesday March 3 and will feature performances from as many of the acts who can play on the night as possible (we’ll be announcing the full details in the next few weeks). Tickets, priced €27 euro including booking fees, go on sale on Monday next.
The winning act will receive a cheque for €10,000 (courtesy of the Irish Recorded Music Association and the Irish Music Rights Organisation) and a smashing piece of glassware (courtesy of industry body Recorded Artists & Performers). Without those three industry bodies, there would not be a Choice Music Prize.
The shortlist is selected by a panel of 12 folks who write about and/or talk about and/or broadcast music for a living. They compile their individual Top 10 lists and we combine the results, giving 10 points to the album at number one in each list, 9 points to the album at number 2 and so on right down to one point for the album at number 10.
As is customary, these judges have stayed schtum about their involvment in the project until now. A lot of people wonder why we keep their identities under wraps – it’s simply to ensure that there is no canvassing from PRs or labels and that the judges can come up with the shortlist without any third party pressure whatsoever. As simple as that.
Anyway, the judges who came up with this shortlist and will have the final decision on March 3 are:
Martin Burns (News of the World)
Josh Clarke (i102-104, Galway)
Roisin Dwyer (Hot Press)
Tony Fenton (Today FM)
Cathal Funge (Phantom 105.2, Dublin)
Padraic Halpin (Ragged Words)
Sophie Gorman (Irish Independent)
John McMahon (2fm)
Rob O’Connor (Beat 102-103, Waterford)
Eva Staic (Spin 1038, Dublin)
Chris Wasser (Evening Herald)
Aoife Woodlock (Other Voices)
Declaration of interest to keep everyone happy: I’m the co-founder of this yoke and am also the non-voting chairman of the judging panel.
it was definitley a handball. no doubt about it.
Steve c @185 – not much good for p Kelleher this year though is it? And 2nd albums are usually shite. He’s signed already anyway.
Ok it’s a shame some if the nominees on this years list are a bit lame, and there’s been a few obvious exclusions for whatever dumb reasons, but lets respect some of the good artists nominated adrian crowley, asiwyfa, valerie Francis etc and hope no ‘meteor lite’ shite as David kitt so succinctly put it wins.
Ps is that other jim Carroll guy a wind up or what?
…..
1. This might be obvious but I don’t think anyone has said it – I don’t think Kittser was giving out about the right of any one of the selected judges’ right to be on the list individually, more the lack of representation of less mainstream media. A fair point, I’d argue.
2. A Fans Award?? Seriously do any of the people that suggested a fans award think they’d be any happier with the nominees in one of those awards?
3. Every nominee on this year’s list is worthy of their nomination, regardless of you (all of you maybe) might think.
4. I had more points, which could have been much better than those previously mentioned (see points 1-3), but I got sidetracked by South Park as gaeilge on TG4.
PS: I can’t believe it took this web page for Patrick Kelleher to reach my ears for the first time, shame on me…
PPS: Sorry Naomi your paragraphs had way too many words for me to read after all the stuff before, I hope we weren’t making the same points (for fear of causing repetition in this thread).
Other PS’s: I wasn’t sure if I was sober enough to post under my real name so I chickened out.
Disappointing list. ASIWYFA’s album is my favourite of the six that I’ve heard on that list. I much prefer other albums that aren’t on the list. Particularly Twinkranes whose album in my opinion was staggeringly good. But the judges didn’t agree, that’s their call.
Very surprised David Kitt bothered to reply. I’m not a fan at all. But fair play to him to saying what he felt. It’s shows passion about what he feels. I’ve more respect for that than all the sychophantic guffawing about it that followed.
We’re all music lovers here but no one should expect certain bands to be nominated. The main problem that people are having is about what The Choice Music Prize is meant to represent as an award.
It’s disppointing that whatever is does represent seems to have disillusioned so many genuine music lovers on this blog.
Yes, a new award could be created but the Choice Music Prize will still be seen as the prestige award. That’s why people get so worked up about this list.
It seems that the many of the people (not all, I’m sure there’s people who are just having a go) who criticise the list for being too conservative, the judges, whatever, are the same people who celebrated the creation of this award in the first place. It’s not a good thing that their respect for the award has gone by the wayside.
I’m really pissed off that a friend of mine who recorded an obscure new genre-less sound from his dogs kennel using only his big toe was not nominated. How dare you Jim!
I’ve got a decent interest in Irish music and never heard Twinkranes before or even read about them! Last year I didn’t know who ‘The Shank’ were! If the majority of people know nothing about the guy in a kennel is it really culture and should they be recognised in any culturally important event?
Keep up the good work Jim!
In fairness, there will always be a difference of opinion over any shortlist of albums of the year. It’s all down to personal choice. But it is a bit of a surprise when people get a nomination for the second time, but if their album is good enough (in the judges opinion) then so be it. I would not have selected the chosen albums, but I have not heard more than 20 Irish albums in full from 2009 and I suspect many of the posters here are in the same boat.
The Swell Season, I can live without and even though I don’t necessarily subscribe to the comment I cought on the radio last night that Julie Feeney’s music was “music for people who shop in Avoca” but I thought it was funny all the same!
CODES for the win!
All the concerns and prejudice towards “underground” vs “mainstream” is supposed to fall away during the selection process of this award
And yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable to the moaners here to prejudice against albums and judges that are deemed to be ‘mainstream’?
are we there yet???
captain a @ 197 – it most certainly was. It was Neil Hannon
dave @ 199 – nope. Check him out – jimcarroll.com
matt @ 205 – i think we might be
“In my opinion there should be a lot more people who contribute to the making of the shortlist. AFAIK this is the case with the Mercury”
it’s off a skewed base, you have to apply and pay a fee to get considered for the Mercury shortlist
Valerie Francis album is just beautiful, and should win – Twinkranes should have been nominated as well as Patrick Kellagher…
swell season should be put-down!
Jim @ 184 – Your Toronto namesake has his geography muddlied up, Kilmacthomas is in County Waterford not Co. Cork!
@Peter Nagle Bit disappointed at your comment there Pete. As someone who runs a Irish music blog I presume to support new Irish music I hoped you’d see the reasons why it’s important that such an award doesn’t drift into ‘Meteors Lite’ territory. Do the Swell Season, The Script or BellX1 really need this nomination? I have the Swell Season and BellX1 albums and both are ok but in the top 10 albums of 2009? Give me a break. RTE posted an article on their website in 2005 on the establishment of the award. The second paragraph of the article is the one that nails the award for the sham it’s become…I presume it came from the press release at the time but I’m sure I’ll be corrected on that…”The Choice Music Prize aims to highlight albums from a variety of genres – from indie, trad and pop to electronic and jazz – which deserve more attention.”
So do BellX1, The Swell Season, Laura Izabor or The Script deserve more attention? Really? More than David Kitt or Patrick Kellegher?
Keep up the good work Jim my a**e…seriously.
Fair play to Kittser for speaking up. I’ve not been much of a fan of your music over the years but I really enjoyed the departure that The Nightsaver represented for you and I can scarcely believe that it didn’t make it on.
Very selective choosing of names there by Sleeve.
So what you are saying then is that David Kitt or Patrick Kellegher deserve more attention than ASISYFA, Valerie Francis, Adrian Crowley and Dark Room Notes? Or do you just want to see a Prize based on YOUR tastes? Why don’t you fuck off and start your own Porridge & Baked Beans On Toast Music Prize where you can be as elitist as you want to be?
Its always a laugh seeing music fans taking themselves too seriously-all this whinging and hand wringing because Their exact taste in music isn’t totally represented by the list. Its as if someone not entirely agreeing with your choices is a personal affront.
Was it just me or was 2009 a fairly weak year for music anyway (and not just in Ireland)? There’s nothing on or off the list that set my world alight. Valerie Francis the most interesting of whats there probably.
When are the tests going to be administered to find out who has the correct opinions to compile next years list (a la David Kitts “I just don’t think your chosen panel is qualified to judge music based on artistic merit”)? We need the indie-est people we can find for this judging gig.
That is if there is a next year and the Choice Music Prize hasn’t been brought down by “The System”!!
this is amazing
i have to say, i dnt really think these prices and award ceremonies ever really stand for what they should….. but that has othing to do with the intention of the organiser (in most cases)
it is the fundemental idea of the whole thing!
its nonsense!
and to use this as a forum to bitch is childish and pointless!
if people dont have the will to hunt out new bands themselves, to go and see random gigs and buy cds from small bands….if people arnt already that bothered, then a stupid fucking award ceremony aint gonna help anyone…..
the music system is fucked, and still trying to uphold some hierarchy of , this band is better then that, or this band makes more money then that, is just totally stupid and futile…
if everyone just bothered to make a little effort and support irish music themselves and not buy into what they are fed, by these award things and tv nonsense, then it would be a lot healthier and more stable and creative enviroment for everyone……..hmmmm
a bit of a witter…
heres a link to a good article by steve albini…..
bit old, but still very relevant….
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
david kitt, i very much enjoyed your music, live after hearing it for the first time in years, in greystones….
really good! gunna buy your album now…if its on itunes!
your welcome to a more substantial brekky in delgany anyday!
paul
http://www.myspace.com/moretinygiants (shameless)
@P 198 – Fair enough, I was under the assumption he put it out himself. It’s a great album but feels a bit like a collection of demos, a guy finding his voice. I can’t see any way but up for him.
I agree with Paul on this one. too much talk and opinion, not enough going out there and supporting and seeing. There seems to be an overwhelming support for Paddy Kelleher which is great I just hope that when he’s out gigging that people come to see him and others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and life would be boring if everyone agreed. entertaining this is and a good forum to highlight other musicians. Great album Kittser. Would actually put money on More Tiny Giants being nominated next year if there’s justice and whilst we are mentioning new music you should all check out Rian Trench’s solo work, beautiful.
SUPPORT MUSIC AND GET OUT TO GIGS
a drop of baileys, banana and almonds on your porridge is the business
Dear David Kitt and other omittees,
Please spend less time writing arse on blogs and Thumped.com and more time writing songs that the media will, “highlight as deserving of some extra time in the spotlight and, ultimately, to select the album which best sums up the year in Irish music”.
Simple as.
Mark G
Hello to the war zone.
I find it funny to be looking at this from the inside out. I suppose for a couple of years now this has been an award which i have looked up to in its “concept”. An award which was based, loosely on Mercury and presented as an alternative award to the Meteors. An award which had merit and street cred so to speak. I suppose when Super Extra Bonus Party snatched it in 2007 with all the style and gnash of a non-league outfit knicking Chelsea out of the FA Cup at Stamford Bridge with a 92nd minute kick in the nads, I was left scratching my head wondering ‘hang on, in MY opinion, this was the worst album on the table so how can THIS be an award of any credibility’. Rosin Murphy put in a performance that night (so did her Guitarist) which left most people in the room a little spell bound and if the award was based on performances on the night surely she would have won it. I would have handed the award to Adrian that year based on my preference for his album Long Distance Swimmer.
But who are WE to decide what has Merit?
What’s clear to me from reading all of these comments and posts is that everyone has an opinion, everyone’s tastes are different and everyone is right and everyone is wrong. We might all have submitted different nominations in our list of 10. The judging panel’s selection, no matter who was short listed or not, was always going to cause controversy.
There is unfortunately no middle ground when it comes to nominating 10 acts out of a few hundred who are deemed worthy enough to be short listed based on the album they have released in the year previous. There will always be those who can find alternatives based on their own individual tastes & knowledge and I know this may sound like a condescending view point (not meant that way at all) which might suggest none of you know this but it’s the plain and simple truth.
You can argue the merits of the judges until your blue in the face. I would agree that, for this particular award, based on its concept and the ethos behind it, I too would question one or two of the people on the panel and happily sit in a room with them and be quite confident of listing off 10 albums which I believe have all the hall marks of great future potential and artistic genius at times that they possibly would not have heard of.
But is that what this is about? Us being so cool for school that in order for something to be deemed worthy enough to be on the Choice Music Prize list, Joe Public must not have heard of it? Or is it about your particular favourite act which has not been nominated this year? Or is it about a particular judge on the panel with whom we deem does not have enough knowledge of music to be worthy to judge who gets listed and who doesn’t?? The fact is its ALL of the above and that’s what makes music and opinion and debate and argument such a wonderful part of our lives. We’ll never agree on everything, least of all this list but I think it might be time to focus back on the acts at hand and allow them to enjoy their moment rather than become bitter about what’s not there.
Best
Karl
Seriously lads, what is Tony Fenton doing on the judging panel??
Have to agree with a lot of what David Kitt said. The judging panel should contain at least some well established musicians from different fields: Paul Brady, David Holmes etc
I’ll say it again though, how is Wallis Bird’s album ‘New Boots’ ommited? It’s a cracking album.
Hoping Julie Feeney gets it but probably won’t as she’s not deemed ‘indie’ enough. Failing that, I wouldnt mind if the Duckworth Lewis Method got it…new kitchens all round
Mark G obviously isn’t aware of how much time David Kitt and others do commit to writing music or he wouldn’t have written his own arse.
simple is!
@Mark_G
What, you reckon people should write music specifically to impress the media representatives on the Choice panel? That’s a bit mad.
@210 I don’t think for one minute CMP is becoming like The Meteors who Kdamo here explains the nomination process;
http://kdamo.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/meteors-land-with-zero-impact/
It’s just that the CMP is not the place to look for new emerging underground talent. It is simply a media award in which 12 people nominated 10 albums out of 180 which they liked! End of! Now maybe we can move on!
@ Mark_G 216
Probably the most inaccurate message on this entire thread (which is no mean feat) so well done sir.
i agree – its all just sour grapes – boo hoo you didn’t get nominated, stop bringing the whole vibe down and wrecking the buzz, captain bringdown kitt!
What the crap sticks?? Hail to the Thief didn’t make the albums of the decade? Somebody call an ambulance, I think my liver’s just jumped on my kidney in a huff. Ah wait, this is a different one of those what-a-shite-decision rackets…
Lists don’t please everyone, I doubt there’s any one person who’d agree with those exact ten albums. What matters here is the cost of kitchens in the current climate. A national disgrace. This could only be the work of that dastardly Biffo.
Mullofkintyredoolally, the Tribune should cost less on account of your drivel, one doesn’t care if one yacks bile, rah rah roysh loike y’know.
Naomi, g’wan ya legend.
Kittser for President.
David Kitt is a lightweight. He throws a hissy fit because his album isn’t nominated and personalises the whole argument. Then, when the person he challenges responds to him (in a very mannered way – I’d have decked the dope), he fucks off. Then, when he was asked to go on Phantom FM to discuss this, he chickened out. What a wimp.
This nialler9 end of year poll below is more representative of what people are listening to and want-
http://www.nialler9.com/2009/12/23/nialler9-irish-albums-2009-poll-results/3/
I agree with sweaty – Kitt ya chicken, its was obviously just a hissy fit heat of the moment thing – all that bollox about gold between the pavement, its not about me but the real music in ireland –
grow up mate and stop pissing on all the other acts great day who made the cut
Fist up Jim, fair play to you for putting on the awards, its work that anyone can do but few actually do so props for that.
I personally think awards are flawed from the get go but the money thats goes to the winner is always going to be welcome and Jape being the winner last year was brilliant, a worth owner of the cash.
Kittser is right about the omission of certain artists and you have to take responsibility for that. You pick the judges, buck stops with you. If they cant see past your Snow patrols and Glen Hansards down to the likes of Twinkranes and Naphta then your onto a loser straight away. No disrespect to Glen et al, just making the point. You could maybe tweak the way you select judges as in not just invite, in your words “Media folk”. You have been dealing with producers and label owners for years, are these not your ‘folk’ aswell, I thought they would have been.
As to the muppets (Sweaty) who think Kittser is sore about not being on this list, your Muppets, read what the man said.
Paul Mulligan
I think you just need to look at the list of judges to see where David Kitt is coming from. That is the problem. Period.
I suggest this issue can easily be solved with the introduction of the following judges panel for next years award:
(1) The Archdiocese of Dublin
(2) The HSE
(3) NAMA
(4) Capital Bars Marketing Team
(5) Bertie Ahearn
(6) The Galway Races
(7) Sean Fitzpatrick
(8) Anyone called “Big Fella”.
(9) The Department od Social Welfare
(10) Poland
(11) The Knowledge Economy
(12) Chris De Burgh
Ireland is a small country and thus the number of people who actively search out music – as opposed to just consuming what they’re fed – is correspondingly small.
Despite their professed love for it, most Irish people treat music as no more than a lubricating backdrop to their socialising – the notion that it might challenge them in any way is usually dismissed as ‘pretentious’….. hence this allegiance to ‘perfect pop’, with its attendant get-out clause of ironic appreciation. Anything that pushes that envelope is almost inevitably ignored.
Respect to David Kitt for letting rip, and for the nod, but personally, I spent years arguing for the relative merits of this-music-over-that, and eventually gave up, as I came to the conclusion that it’s a complete waste of time. No-one likes being told that their choices are poor (especially those whose careers are founded on their supposed discerning critical abilities), so all that usually results in scenarios like this one here is a tiresome slogging-match i.e. “my music is better than yours”… which really only serves to deepen the notion that music is a competition that can somehow be “won”.
Anyway, I’ve only heard of two of the nominees – and one of the judges named in this competition, so I guess I’m living in an alternative musical universe to this one.
Interesting reading. Happy enough with some of the list, would like to see Valerie Francis win. I can see where DK is coming from and i think his last post sums up his feelings on the matter. I also think he did the right thing in saying what was on his mind and asking for an explanation.
Not sure what to make of some of the judges as well to be honest, but if nothing else has come from this, i will at least be now checking out Patrick Kellehers album. Also think BATS should have been nominated….
@ 219 & 222 there is part of my post in inverted commas (” ” in case you need some help). It comes from http://www.choicemusicprize.com.
To clarify, if an artist comes here to whinge about not making the short list, they feel hard done by.
By doing so, the artist(s) become(s) fair game for reminder that, while their labour of love my be a personal venture, the assembled judges from Irish music media deem it not worthy of a nod for 10K.
Specifically @ 216, yes Karl if an artist really wants to win 10k, they should give due consideration to the music award equivalent of how to win friends and influence people. Hell, it is more money then they will make from album sales in Ireland.
If an artist does not agree with the above, they need to reconsider what their commercial musical motivations are.
It is, after all, the music industry not the music charity.
Specifically @ 222 Bren Jacob, you’ll do well to remind yourself frequently of my penultimate sentence.
Thanks to everyone for their comments. Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time to get back to every single one of them – once comments go over the 50 mark here, I always drop back and let the OTR readers take over.
Paul @ 227 – as I have pointed out above in a a few places, the Choice Music Prize was set up to be selected by media folks. 50 media people have been involved in selecting the shortlists to date – we change our judging panel annually.
If I was to be involved with a Music Prize which was chosen by a mixture of media, producers and label folks, it would be something else entirely to Choice. On that note, I believe that there are actually advanced plans – and not the ones alluded to above or elsewhere – for such a Prize or Award to be launched, pending funding.
On a completely unrelated note to all of the above, I’ve just tried to buy tickets for this on ticketmaster only to be told that they want to fleece me with a whopping €3.40 PER TICKET service charge.
I don’t know how these things work, or how ticketmaster is selected as a booking agent for these events – I’m sure it’s been covered elsewhere – but I need to rant about how that is extortionate in the extreme!! I’m not near an outlet, and wanted to get 5 tickets for this today…. not too impressed.
Rant of the day over
just a quick question – am I right in thinking there’s a second round of voting based on nominees in that shortlist, yeah?
I notice the nominees are listed alphabetically, for obvious reasons, but when you’re compiling the shortlist based on the method explained, does the album at the top of that list not usually win the overall prize, even with the second vote? What’s happened in the past with this? Just wondering . . .
Have Kittser and Kanye West ever been seen in the same room?
monica – we use ticketmaster because they’re the ticket sellers used by the venues and our promoters, Aiken Promotions. It’s worth nothing that we have kept the ticket price as low as possible – in fact, we’ve charged the same bloody price in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now again in 2010. Really sorry to hear how you feel about this.
nick – the judges will vote again on that shortlist on the night (March 3) and one winner will emerge from that. It’s not always the case that the act who got the most votes in the first round come out on top (sometimes, though, they do).
Thanks for the reply Jim. Just to clarify, I know this has always been a great night out and let’s face it, €27 IS pretty spanking good value for money for (what I’m sure will be!) a great line-up. Not disputing this in the slightest and I’m certainly looking forward to the occasion! No issue whatsoever with the ticket pricing. It’s almost worth it for the debate here alone, in fact…!
However it just really, really annoys me to see these cowboys taking advantage – I drove to the nearest outlet at lunchtime only to still have to cough up €2.25 per ticket even though I paid cash – a total of €11.25 for five tickets. I can tell you, I would damn rather see that €11.25 going to the artists, or indeed sitting in my own back pocket than going where it is, but it doesn’t seem like there’s much choice in this regard!
Incidentally, is there an alternative way of purchasing tickets that doesn’t involve Ticketmaster?
Rant of the day *definitely* over this time – not the time or place but perhaps I shall channel my energy into writing a Strongly Worded Letter.. for the craic, like.
Hey, when will the line-up be announced? Would to love to be there but I’d kinda want to know the line-up before making the mission up from Cork.
Cheers
sneezy – if you are in Dublin, try City Discs or Sound Cellar who I think – and I stress I think – have a much better deal on transaction fees.
mitch – we’re waiting to hear about one or two acts before we announce anything. They’re trying to sort out tour and travelling schedules before saying yes or no so we’ll hold off on the announcement until they know for sure.
Ok,
I normally wouldn’t (and know I really, really shouldn’t) get involved in the kind of petty mud-slinging and mindless begrudgery that all too often epitomizes the Irish music “scene”, but hey, it’s a quiet day down here in Behan Manor and I like a good ding-dong as much as the next chap, so here goes…
Some of the fire that D. Kitt has drawn from the usual anonymous, internet no-marks before they duck back down under the cover of their keyboards, is just out of line and misses his point completely.
As a fellow musician I have to admire his standing up for other artists whom he feels (justifiably or no) deserve whatever credit and publicity a mention on the Choice list would offer. From my dealings with Dave over the years, I know that he is a decent, well-meaning guy who has taken his ups and downs in this most, horrible of industries over the years with good grace and humility. He has always taken a keen interest in lots of Irish music across a wide variety of styles, and so when he speaks up for acts he feels are making good music, I know it’s coming from a genuine place and is clearly not a case of rattle-throwing, as some of the plebs on here are so keen to make out.
(Disclaimer: me and Kittser aren’t the best of buds who spend our days hanging out in Road bitching about the skinny jeans brigade, I’ve only met him a few times).
His point about the judge list is a fair one. Any award is only as credible as the people who deem themselves worthy of giving it, and clearly that list leaves a little to be desired. Show me someone with a good knowledge/understanding of the process of music-making who works for NOTW, Today FM (notable exceptions to Mr. Dineen), The Irish Indo, Beat 102-whatever, Spin 10-whatever, Evening Herald, and I’ll show you someone who’s in the wrong job. I’m sure Mssrs. Fenton and Dempsey are decent guys, but barometers of cutting edge sonics they ain’t. I think it says more about the chronic lack of good music critisism/journalism in this country than any lack of talent, of which there is clearly no shortage (kudos to Osaka, Farpoint Recordings, 9. Records and many others).
I don’t know what kind of year it’s been for Irish music and could care less. I’ve only actually heard of about 4 of the nominees and I’m sure there’s some worthy records in there and good luck to them. Though if I have to hear THAT Laura Is-a-bore tune again, I’ll surely be hurling myself under the nearest heavy-goods vehicle. There’s a big, wide world out there and it’s full of all kinds of interesting, original music. Right now I’m listening to a CD from a chap from Russia who is in the Russian Navy and makes tunes on his laptop as he sails around the Baltic Ocean. The internet has made this world so much more accessible and I can’t help but despair as to how very puerile and narrow-minded the back-slapping and cannibalistic Irish(Dublin) music “scene” really is. Having said that, I also know Jim’s intentions with regards as to what he hopes the Choice Awards can achieve are well-intentioned and should be applauded. You can’t please everyone with these things and opinions, as they say, are like arseholes, everybody’s got one. And there seems no shortage of “opinions” on here.
So before the accusations of rattle-throwing aimed at my good self begin, due to the criminal omission of my own latest meisterwerk, The Echo Garden (available in all good… well, Road and my website), I’ll just say this. I could only send out so many promos and these usually go to where I feel they’ll be of most use (ie. nerdy experimental mags, specialist radio shows/stations etc). Needless to say NOTW, Tony Fenton and Fresh 10-whatever FM weren’t on my list. So I can understand why I wasn’t nominated and besides, it’s nice to give everyone else a chance. No doubt I’ll be cleaning up at this year’s Meteors anyway. I could make the effort to get more promos out next (this) year and give everyone the opportunity to put this travesty to rights. But I probably won’t.
.
Props to Phantom, Dan Hegarty, Dineen, O’Ciobhain, JK and BC at LyricFM and everyone else who did give my disc a listen/spin and to Jim Carroll, who had the good taste to put it in his own Top 10 (cheers Jimbo
And for what it’s worth, I think the 10 grand should go to Dave and Julie over in Road Records, who have done more for Irish music than the rest of muso/knob twiddlers/hacks/bloghogs put together.
(Quietly) yours,
Jimmy Behan
Carlow (the REAL music capital of Ireland).
Jimmy – thanks for taking the time to post that comment. I respect what you have said and especially how you have made your points. It is possible to do so with personalising the issue or insulting anyone.
I’ll address one issue you raise because it has been brought up here again and again and again so I think I need to clarify it once and for all. It’s the one about the judges.
To explain this, let’s start with the Choice Music Prize itself. It is open to ALL Irish acts regardless of genre, size, success or sales. It is NOT a prize about the underground and it is NOT a Prize about the overground. It is a Prize about IRISH music regardless of every category going. It is a Prize which is a broad church because Irish music is a broad church.
Therefore we choose our 12 judges to match that broad church. We need judges who cover national and local radio, national and local press, males and females, young and old, online and offline, Dublin and beyond. We also only use judges once so we have a fresh panel every year.
It’s a MEDIA prize which is why we don’t have producers and musicians on the panel. If we had producers or musicians, it would be a much different Prize. Media write about and talk about music every day of the week so I do think they have “a good knowledge/understanding of the process of music-making”, to quote yourself. After all, many of the acts who have been nominated and many of the acts who didn’t make the list exert much effort in trying to get this same media to write about or play their music so surely they wouldn’t be doing that if that wasn’t the case.
Again, Jimmy, thanks for taking the time to comment here. As you know, I personally think “The Echo Garden” is superb and your comment reminds me to pull it out to play on the Far Side tomorrow night. As you know, I don’t have a vote or a say in the Choice shortlist – but I do have a radio show which is happy to play beautiful minimal music by mods for mods.
Carlow abu (except in the hurling)
The issue of judges is still of huge importance, and won’t go away.
Whatever about this year’s award, thinking a few years ahead poses the difficulty of standing by the practice of selecting a new committee of media personnel every year…
How many people work in the music media? Is there a bottomless pit of judges to choose from or is it a case of exhausting the current resources before either asking for the services of previous judges or being forced into backing down on the issue of music producers as judges?
In which case, why not open the gates for next year & level the playing field? What was that Zappa said about the mind & the parachute…
Hi Jim,
Some fair points there and thanks for your clarifications.
I think I was just trying to get across how hard it is for more niche sounds to simply get on the radar of said media due to financial restraints, which is why it would be nice to see one or two judges with say, an ear to the ground for such genres such as yourself, which I think was what Dave was getting at. It does seem like a fairly narrow selection in that regard (the judges, not the nominees) rather than one which represents the broad church of Irish music like you say, but that’s your call and I suppose you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I should say I’m referring more to the papers/radio stations in the list rather than the individuals and I don’t mean to be doing them a disservice, but it would be nice to see someone from say, the JMI, Lyric FM or XFM in there too as the mainstream media seem fairly overtly represented.
Normally I wouldn’t feel the need to engage with this side of the media, as us nerdy types have our own little community across the world which serves our needs admirably, but occasionally we must stick our heads over the bunker and make our presence felt and I suppose it’s sometimes tempting to hope that something like the Choice Award offers us a rare opportunity to get some recognition for our humble efforts in our own country.
As I was saying, trying to blanket bomb all the writers/radio stations out there with promos just isn’t an option, so us experimental types have to be picky with where to send our CDs. Judging by some of the comments made, it seems some people aren’t really that familiar with the harsh realities of music promotion these days. Also it’s too much to expect the same media folk to be able to listen to the multitude of releases being put out, there’s only so many hours in the day after all, especially if they’re not so open to niche styles. Obviously music such as my own isn’t going to be to everyone’s taste, nor is it intended to be, so I’m always grateful to anyone in the media who can give it a listen/spin, so cheers for that. This cat is always glad of any scraps from the table!
All the best,
Jimmy.
Jimmy – if you have a look at the Choice Music Prize website and look at previous years’ shortlists and judges, you will see that we’ve always had a broad swathe of judges. I wouldn’t call, for instance, Padraic Halpin (Ragged Words) or Cathal Funge (Phantom FM), two of this year’s judges, “mainstream”. Because of the broad remit of the Choice Music Prize, you will never get a situaton where all the judges are non-mainstream – just as you will never get a situation where all the judges are mainstream. We will always have judges from both areas. I know this is a problem for some people but that is not going to change.
You mention how hard it is for “niche sounds” to get on the radar – given that previous Choice Music Prize winners include Julie Feeney and Super Extra Bonus Party, I think Choice has done a fine job with niche sounds, though I have a feeling that some in the business of niche sounds (and I hasten to say this is not aimed at you) feel we’re not niche enough unless they and their band are included. Many would describe some of this year’s nominees as “niche” too – I have already heard this said of ASIWYFA, Adrian Crowley and Valerie Francis.
As I said in my first reply to you, what we’re trying to do is cover all IRISH music regardless of all genre, therefore the list can never and will never be ALL niche or ALL mainstream. Thus there will always be a selection from both.
Again, thanks for your considered reply. It is possible to have a discussion about this without personalising the issue as some have unfortunately chosen to do.
Stiof – we have had 60 judges so far without repeating ourselves and I have a list of another 60 judges I’d like to ask. There’s not a problem getting judges.
I do feel and hope, though, that we are coming to the end of this particular debate. I think it’s time to move on and concentrate on the 10 acts who have been selected so I’m closing comments on this. Thanks to everyone for their time and thoughts.