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  • irishtimes.com - Posted: September 11, 2008 @ 10:37 am

    When promoters make a hames of things, part 2,356

    Jim Carroll

    Stick with me here people, it’s a good one.

    Day one, MCD book Glasvegas for their Irish debut headlining show.

    Glasvegas are so hot right now. Cracking album an’ all. People raving about them. They’re even getting played on Pet Sounds on Today FM. Now, that’s hot, boyo. People want to see them and go “wow” at their quiffs and doo-wop and thick Scottish accents.

    Day two, MCD book the band into Whelan’s in Dublin for the show. Whelan’s is a compact room on the mild side of the town. Many observers go “mmm, that one will sell out sharpish”.

    Day three, tickets go on sale. Tickets sell out in less time than it takes a Junior Cert student with drink taken to fall over.

    Day three and one hour, MCD move gig to The Academy, the venue they themselves own and operate.

    Day four, the Academy gig now also appears to be sold out. Promoters may be looking around for another venue.

    While my inner Machiavelli wants to believe that this really was a dastardly plan by the promoters to get even more PR for the show, the side of the head atuned to how promoters works know this is not the case. Why waste all that time booking different venues and all that? The question really is who in their right mind, given how the media and fans have taken to the band, thought that Glasvegas would only be able to fill Whelan’s?

    This isn’t the first time such a huge miscalculation has occured. A couple of years ago, the same promoters stuck Manu Chao in Whelan’s on the basis that they didn’t really knew he was. He ended up playing in the Point.

    And promoters thinks journalists don’t know what they’re doing? Tsk.

    Anyway, here’s a video of the band. Like I said, really liking the album.

    YouTube Preview Image

    • 50 Comments

    1.
    September 11, 2008
    10:47 am

    Glasvegas already played in Crawdaddy Jim? if that is your real name!

    Comment by Jon Averill
    2.
    September 11, 2008
    10:56 am

    yeah well i did post a couple of days ago my disbelief at booking whelans. they did it with LCD soundsystem last year, booking them for the button factory.the ambassador is already taken for that nit with the mighty scouting for girls

    Comment by petee
    3.
    September 11, 2008
    11:03 am

    Jon – That was a gig at Pogo, right? Have corrected the post

    petee – this one will end up in the olympia

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    4.
    September 11, 2008
    11:08 am

    Simaler to putting The National in The Village last year and then they end up selling out the Olympia and The Ambassador.

    Comment by Aero
    5.
    September 11, 2008
    11:10 am

    not to worry, i think i posted the same question about 6 times! browser problems!

    yeah, was pogo i believe, the also had ting tings a while back too.

    Comment by Jon
    6.
    September 11, 2008
    11:16 am

    Quiffs and Scots accents. Recipe. For. Disaster.

    Comment by Johnnie
    7.
    September 11, 2008
    11:17 am

    I couldn’t believe they’d been booked for Whelan’s either.. God, that would have been a brilliant venue to see them in. Was never going to happen, though. I’d much rather see them in the Olympia than The Academy – the sound in that place has been crap for any gig I’ve seen there, and it gets uncomfortably packed/hard to see the stage very quickly.

    Comment by Lauren
    8.
    September 11, 2008
    11:19 am

    Petee – That was a Pod gig I think, not MCD.

    I’m willing to give people the benefit of the doubt that they underestimate demand from time to time.

    See also Explosions in the Sky being originally booked for The Village and moving to a sold out Tripod, I think that was a Forever Presents event.

    Leagues said to me on the night of the gig that he completely underestimated how much of a draw Why? would be back in May when he originally booked them for Upstairs in Whelans, it ended up in Andrews Lane.

    The most befuddling similar case I can remember recently was Cold War kids (mainly due to their 2 good songs and that’s it mediocrity) who went from Whelan’s to The Village to The Ambassador.

    But for genuine cock ups see the Bon Iver gig this year but apparently that was down to ticketmaster overselling crawdaddy, or so the promotor claimed.

    As for Glasvegas, it’s a pretty alright album but better Scottish records have come out this year. I like the spoken word over moonlight sonata thing quite a bit (stabbed?). I got an Academy ticket but I wouldn’t have been too put out had I not, they’re probably worth 15 of my euro.

    Oh, oh, oh, just remembered another one. Back last November, The National were booked into the village and it turned into 2 nights, one at the Ambassador and one at The Olympia.

    Comment by Ian
    9.
    September 11, 2008
    11:20 am

    For a group who seem to be generating Killers/Kings Of Leon style adulation in such a short space of time, I did think that putting them on in Whelans had an air of madness.

    My initial buzz about securing a ticket for what I thought would be a cracking initimate show was a little dampened by the notification that it had been ‘upgraded’ within about 90 minutes.

    I can’t see it heading to the Olympia. While I know it was a seriously cheap gig (€17 including service rip off!), I think a lot of the original punters noses might be out of joint if the johnny-come-latelys had the pick of the circle.

    Just something in me waters….

    Comment by James D
    10.
    September 11, 2008
    11:28 am

    Gig sells out due to popular demand shocker.

    Comment by cormacjack
    11.
    September 11, 2008
    11:30 am

    cormacjack – good to have you back. Hope u had a good and busy summer. BTW did you do the lights at Franz Ferdinand at the Picnic? Cracking work

    And surely that should be “gig sells out due to promoters sticking band in a totally unsuitable venue?”

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    12.
    September 11, 2008
    11:38 am

    it’s just another case of a band becoming sales material quite quickly… i don’t mind this… safer booking small and moving up than big and not selling out… all you need to do is have your finger ever so slightly off the speculation pulse and you can miss a trick…

    …as an aside, there’s been plenty of cases of too small venues that have been booked and have not been changed… i’m thinking of the rescheduled bloc party gig in whelans at the start of ‘05 for one… another band that went from zeroes to heroes in the space of a few short months…

    as a further aside, if you lads didn’t hype these bands so much, this wouldn’t happen… glasvegas appear fairly average in this scotsman’s personal opinion…

    Comment by Ally
    13.
    September 11, 2008
    11:39 am

    due to reasons beyond our control the gig will now be on in croke park

    Comment by petee
    14.
    September 11, 2008
    11:50 am

    yeah, same thing happened with Fleet Foxes. got a ticket for them after reading the big article/interview the guardian did with them then was being 50 quid for my ticket outside whelans !! didn’t budge though!! Not surprisingly, their vicar street show is sold out too for november

    Comment by garethh
    15.
    September 11, 2008
    11:58 am

    The Oxegen guys are the worst for this. The tents are always full with the current hype acts (MGMT this year is the perfect exampl), and then dross like the Sugababes end up singing to a half-empty field on the Main Stage.

    Comment by Ronan
    16.
    September 11, 2008
    12:09 pm

    got a ticket for whelans, gutted its been upgraded to the ice rink, no doubt it will again be moved to the ambassador, although gutted not surprised, was about as inevitable as a liverpool fan being giddy in august

    Comment by andy
    17.
    September 11, 2008
    12:12 pm

    In a bizarre twist of this story, New Kids On The Block who had only announced a date at the new O2 this morning have already had to ‘relocate’ their gig to The Stags Head.

    Tickets for the original performance are still valid, can be used to gain attendance at The Stags Head and will automatically enter you into the draw for a meal for two in Thunderroad Cafe with the new kid of your choice.

    Comment by James D
    18.
    September 11, 2008
    12:29 pm

    Glasvegas have a couple of decent songs but they are futureless and in thrall to the past and rather boring. They’re just another indie-rock band. I’d echo Johnnie@6 sentiments that quiffs and indecipherable Scottish accents are not a good combination.

    Comment by Quint
    19.
    September 11, 2008
    12:46 pm

    andy – the days of liverpool fans being giddy in august are well and truly over, dude. We bought robbie keane. nuff said.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    20.
    September 11, 2008
    12:57 pm

    Weezer, Vicar St. to the Point the year after.
    Was pretty silly to put them in Vicar St. but I’m glad they stayed in there though, was an amazing gig (I think)

    Comment by Paudie
    21.
    September 11, 2008
    1:03 pm

    Quint – Oi, that’s my past I was being self-deprecating about…

    Comment by Johnnie
    22.
    September 11, 2008
    1:32 pm

    Any of the dozen people who attended the first National gig in Dublin post here? Was it in Whelans or Cobblestone? Promoter (Import, maybe) was about 6 months ahead of the curve.

    Flip is e.g. Shakin Stevens playing upstairs in the bar of the Point (apocryphal?).

    Comment by unknown convict
    23.
    September 11, 2008
    2:06 pm

    jim that video is “no longer available”

    Comment by dinosaur
    24.
    September 11, 2008
    2:13 pm

    convinct – i think that first National show was in Whelan’s on a Sunday night in Nov 2005. Could be open to correction on this – have heard someone going on about a Cobblestones show before. Thrillpier Ian is usually the oracle on this sort of thing. Ian?

    dino – weird, it plays OK on YouTube. Thanks for pointing it out. Will find another one

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    25.
    September 11, 2008
    2:34 pm

    Import Promotions Presents
    THE NATIONAL
    + JEFF MARTIN
    THE COBBLESTONE
    SMITHFIELD, DUBLIN 7
    Tel: (01) 8721799
    MONDAY 16TH DECEMBER 2002
    DOORS 8.30 PM
    ADM €8

    Comment by unknown convict
    26.
    September 11, 2008
    2:41 pm

    thanks convict – reckon the amount of people who claim to have been at that show would fill the Point seven times over.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    27.
    September 11, 2008
    2:47 pm

    i was at the national show in the cobblestone in december 2002… first gig i’d been to since the sex pistols at the lesser free trade hall…

    Comment by Ally
    28.
    September 11, 2008
    3:07 pm

    Thrillpier Ian is usually the oracle on this sort of thing. Ian?

    Convict has better details on that one than I could ever hope to have. I wasn’t at the cobblestone gig by the way.

    I believe there may have been a pre-Whelan’s Cork gig as well. Ivor of this parish may be able to confirm though he wasn’t at that gig I think.

    But on related National news, there’s a new Clogs album (That’s the other band that Bryce Dessner, the twin who usually stands on the right hand side of the stage and Padme Newsome who plays keys and fiddle with them) on the way soon aparently, their first venture into music with words I understand and Matt will be singing some.

    Comment by Ian
    29.
    September 11, 2008
    3:08 pm

    See also:
    Green Day, Fox & Pheasant
    Keith Jarrett, some pub in Meath
    Tin Machine, The Baggot

    Comment by unknown convict
    30.
    September 11, 2008
    3:50 pm

    I saw Glasvegas…they played before Muse & Kasabian in Marlay Park right? My friend was raving about them and I thought they were pretty bad to be honest. The songs were completely derivative. My humble opinion.

    Comment by Triona
    31.
    September 11, 2008
    4:02 pm

    Glasvegas are the new Proclaimers.

    Comment by Matt Vinyl
    32.
    September 11, 2008
    4:29 pm

    Saw Josh Ritter in The Stables, Mullingar on a wet Friday night in 2002. Me and about 3 other people. Packed tents at Electric Picnic and 24- piece orchestras were but a glint in his eye.

    Comment by Quint
    33.
    September 11, 2008
    4:42 pm

    lol @#6

    Glasvegas will play the Olympia – tenner bets.

    What about the booking @ Electric Picnic? Santogold & Crystal Castles in jammed tents and all-day reggae/easy listening snoozefest on the mainstage?

    Comment by unarocks
    34.
    September 11, 2008
    5:00 pm

    I think they got stage policy spot-on at EP. Santogold or CC are not main-stage material.

    Comment by Quint
    35.
    September 11, 2008
    5:17 pm

    Santogold is COMPLETELY mainstage material

    Comment by unarocks
    36.
    September 11, 2008
    5:17 pm

    “Green Day, Fox & Pheasant
    Keith Jarrett, some pub in Meath
    Tin Machine, The Baggot”

    In more recent times, Fujiya & Miyagi in The Tap at the corner of Church St/ Nth King St

    Comment by Matt Vinyl
    37.
    September 11, 2008
    5:21 pm

    Green Day actually played The Attic (first floor of the White Horse on Burgh Quay). It was a benefit gig on a Sunday afternoon for ME Ireland. 50 people there max. I’ve always had loads of respect for Green Day since because they did that gig for Niall and Hope.

    The Tin Machine gig – Bowie also did a “secret” drum & bass gig in The Factory in Ringsend. Both gigs were probably better off staying secret.

    There must be more of these gigs – bands who are now huge playing tiny venues here.

    Oh, hold on, Dead Can Dance in a wee theatre in Sligo in 1993. Amazing gig.

    And another one – and they were as shite then as they are now – Stereophonics in the basement of Fitzsimons Hotel in Temple Bar in ‘96.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    38.
    September 11, 2008
    5:48 pm

    Ooh ooh, does this mean I get to tell my Nirvana in the Top Hat, Dun Laoghaire story?

    Comment by Karin H
    39.
    September 11, 2008
    5:52 pm

    karin – have a read of this first – http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/ontherecord/2007/08/21/smells-like-top-hat-spirit/

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    40.
    September 11, 2008
    6:15 pm

    *Cries*

    Comment by Karin H
    41.
    September 11, 2008
    6:48 pm

    Santogold & Crystal Castles in jammed tents and all-day reggae/easy listening snoozefest on the mainstage?

    Santogold maybe but CC, no way.

    I saw Interpol in The Village BUT apparently they’d done a gig here the previous year in Spirit. The support at the Village gig was from a little known but sharp dressed Scottish outfit called Franz Ferdinand (who I missed as I arrived there late).

    Methinks Sufjan in the Douglas Hyde Gallery is my best one of these stories.

    Comment by Ian
    42.
    September 12, 2008
    10:18 am

    Ah, the oneupmanship is in prime form this morning! Stereophonics in ‘96 would have been during In The City, correct? Lord, they were fun days! The Setanta Records show at the Olympia (night of the Inter Cert results methinks – there were lots of girlies trying to get Neil Hannon to get his kit off but they only ever got him to open his tie) was quite wonderful and quite sticky too. Best thing were probably the spoken word shows in Whelans – Nic Cohn, Melvyn Van Peebles, Carolyn Cassidy (a real lady!) and Howard Marks but Roddy Doyle reading from The Commitments for the first time in public was the highlight.

    And as someone mentioned the lights for Franz Ferdinand @ EP, what about the constantly disappearing lights for Terry Callier?!?!

    Comment by Colette C.
    43.
    September 12, 2008
    12:40 pm

    “The Tin Machine gig – Bowie also did a “secret” drum & bass gig in The Factory in Ringsend. ”

    That was a load of bleeding pony that was.

    Comment by Matt Vinyl
    44.
    September 12, 2008
    3:57 pm

    oh, go on then! Seeing as my mate Damien is having a go at me, I may as well throw in my tuppence worth:
    Prefab Sprout in the Buttery TCD sometime in ‘83 and (my favourite one)
    The Smiths at the Trinity Xmas Ball in ‘83 (that’s before their debut LP was issued). I’m still smug about that one, I’m afraid.

    Comment by synno
    45.
    September 14, 2008
    2:58 pm

    On an opposite note:

    Built To Spill (November 10th) has been moved to the smaller Whelan’s.

    Comment by Ian
    46.
    September 14, 2008
    10:08 pm

    A bit late to this forum. Was at Green Day in White Horse. They were completely outshone by a young local band who I think were called Dog Day. Hope/Niall gigs are sorely missed. Band who should have been huge/small venue. That Petrol Emotion in Spirit Store Dundalk two weeks ago was ridiculously brilliant. Even better than the New Inn

    Comment by Peter
    47.
    September 14, 2008
    10:13 pm

    p.s Jim, I could be wrong but I think that the Green Day gig was just a normal gig before they were famous. Was it not Therapy that played the ME gig?

    Comment by Peter
    48.
    September 15, 2008
    6:52 pm

    gotta step in here. i am a promoter and MCD would certainly not be on my christmas card list (nor vice versa) but misinformation is misinformation.

    what about when journalists make hames? does that ever happen?

    well let’s start at the top of this thread…

    Jim said…
    “A couple of years ago, the same promoters stuck Manu Chao in Whelan’s on the basis that they didn’t really knew he was. He ended up playing in the Point. And promoters thinks journalists don’t know what they’re doing? Tsk.”

    All fine. EXCEPT it’s incorrect. Manu Chao was moved from Whelans to Ambassador and about 12-18 months later he came back and played The Point. (a hell of a lot of Spanish and French immigrants had arrived into Ireland around that period).

    that is the first of many items of misinformation on the 47 comments on this thread (none of which has been corrected)

    yet forum folk and journalists have a remarkable ability to get things wrong again and again yet never lose any of their bullet proof belief in their own superior knowledge.

    as for people complaining about full tents at festivals, or complaining that bands sell out small venues and don’t get moved to bigger venues – heaven forbid to think that some bands/promoters might actually consider what makes a better atmosphere at a gig. it’s not just about numbers!

    So MGMT, Santogold or Crystal Castles would have worked better on main stages?!?!? oh the comfort of making such ludicrous claims without ever having to stand by them.

    yes promoters make mistakes but please lose the know-it-all/hindsight wisdom/basic arrogance that is throughout this thread people.

    on a final note, it’s my personal belief that the promoters of Glasvegas probably did plan to (or at least allow for) move the venues upwards. it takes a couple of phonecalls to move the venues – not rocket science.

    wow i’ve just defended MCD again, what’s happened to me

    Comment by Deeko
    49.
    September 16, 2008
    8:47 am

    Deeko – I didnt mean to infer that Manu Chao played the Point on that occasion and that was clumsy on my behalf. Yes, journalists do make mistakes but we correct them – re-read this post and see the correction when it was pointed out that Glasvegas had played Pogo already. Many, many times I’ve made mistakes here and they are corrected. Likewise with misinformation in comments – as someone who reads this blog religiously every day in search of slights, you should know that I jump in (or another reader jumps in) where misinformation is given. That’s what a blog does, dude.

    And speaking of misinformation……

    as for people complaining about full tents at festivals, or complaining that bands sell out small venues and don’t get moved to bigger venues – heaven forbid to think that some bands/promoters might actually consider what makes a better atmosphere at a gig. it’s not just about numbers!

    So it’s not just about the numbers is it? It’s all about a better atmosphere? Really? Why then was the Groove Armada and Dizzee Rascal gig moved from IMMA last autumn to the Tripod? From a 5000 capacity tent to a smaller venue where any ambience is usually ruined by the staff constantly cleaning glasses and floors? Were you the promoter in that case?

    The excuse at the time was that new old chestnut “unforseen circumstances”. What a load of baloney! The reason was poor ticket sales yet the promoter didn’t say that and hoped the public would swallow that inane, ridiculous excuse. When the day comes that a promoter comes out and says “listen, we were wrong, the people don’t want to see this awful act”, we’ll all applaud and cheer. But that will never happen, will it? Until then, we’ll all accept that “unforseen circumstances” is code for “poor ticket sales”.

    I’ve noticed in the last year or so that promoters like yourself are whinging more and more about how people view them and their shows and how blogs like this are covering their activities in a far more critical manner than before. Better get used to it, baby, because the days when a promoter could simply issue a press release and have hacks cut and paste it into print without asking a few questions are well over. The fact is your audience are also asking questions – they’re asking about ticket prices, customer service, bar prices, venue facilities and everything else. Promoters (ALL PROMOTERS) have to up their game in every regard.

    Comment by Jim Carroll
    50.
    September 16, 2008
    5:55 pm

    Wolf Parade has been moved from Andrews Lane theatre to Vicar St. by the way.

    Comment by Ian

    Comments on this article are now closed.


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